Episode 233 | Dr. Eric Mason

Eric Mason

Host & Executive Producer – Latasha Morrison
Senior Producer – Lauren C. Brown
Producer, Editor & Music By – Travon Potts
Transcriber – Sarah Connatser

Links:

Dr. Eric Mason: https://www.pastoremase.com/

Epiphany Fellowship: https://www.epiphanyfellowship.org/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC76WVwO_8jULaF3i0oVJF0g

Thriving: https://thriveinthecity.com/

Nationwide Solemn Assembly: https://www.pastoremase.com/nationwidesolemnassembly-2/

Jude 3 Project: https://jude3project.org/

Lands of the Bible Cruise 2022 with Dr. Eric Mason, Dr. Bryan Loritts, Pastor Albert Tate, and Lecrae: http://www.eo.travelwithus.com/tours/pf22101622c58465#eotours

Follow Dr. Mason: Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/pastoremase/

Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/eric.mason.9421

Twitter – https://twitter.com/pastoremase

Advertisement for BetterHelp: BetterHelp.com/BetheBridge

Be the Bridge: BetheBridge.com

Not all views expressed in this interview reflect the values and beliefs of Latasha Morrison or the Be the Bridge organization.

About Eric Mason

Eric Mason is the founding and lead pastor of Epiphany Fellowship in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. He is also the founder and president of Thriving, an urban resource organization committed to developing leaders for ministry in the urban context. Eric has authored several books, including Woke Church: An Urgent Call for Christians in America to Confront Racism and Injustice and Manhood Restored: How the Gospel Makes Men Whole. He is married to Yvette, and they have four children.

The full episode transcript is below.

Narrator  0:01  

You are listening to the Be the Bridge podcast with Latasha Morrison.

Latasha Morrison  0:05  

[Intro] How are you guys doing today? This is exciting!

Narrator  0:09  

Each week, Be the Bridge podcast tackles subjects related to race and culture with the goal of bringing understanding.

Latasha Morrison  0:17  

[Intro] …but I’m going to do it in the spirit of love.

Narrator  0:19  

We believe understanding can move us toward racial healing, racial equity, and racial unity. Latasha Morrison is the founder of Be the Bridge, which is an organization responding to racial brokenness and systemic injustice in our world. This podcast is an extension of our vision to make sure people are no longer conditioned by a racialized society but grounded in truth. If you have not hit the subscribe button, please do so now. Without further ado, let’s begin today’s podcast. Oh, and stick around for some important information at the end.

Latasha Morrison  0:57  

Dr. Eric Mason is the founder and senior pastor of Epiphany Fellowship in Philadelphia, PA. He is also the founder and president of Thriving, which is an urban ministry organization committed to training leaders of ministry in cities locally, nationally, and internationally. Dr. Mason is the author of Manhood Restored and leadership kit and study guide, Beat God to the Punch, Unleashed, and Woke Church. And his newest is Urban Apologetics. Dr. Mason has contributed to multiple publications that serve the body of Christ. He received his B.S. in Psychology from Boise State University. He later went on to earn his Master of Theology at Dallas Theological Seminary, and then later earning his doctorate at Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary. He is also a foodie and a coffee snob, and he enjoys reading, writing, art, and shopping for style. So let’s welcome Dr. Mason to the Be the Bridge community. I want to talk a little bit about your your book but also just some of the conversations you’ve been having. I started following you, actually I think when I was in Texas because I needed some Black pastors in my life. (laughter) And I was listening to you and a couple other people that I was listening to. So even before you did Woke Church and all that stuff, so.

Dr. Eric Mason  2:32  

I see your picture popping up everywhere. Somebody’s banner, you speaking somewhere doing something. So I ended up going to your page. I said, “Who is this sister?” And I went over to, cause I said “She everywhere.” And I went to your page, and you were following me. I was like, “Oh, I feel special. I don’t know who she is, but I’m gonna find out.” And so then I started checking in.

Latasha Morrison  3:00  

I’ve been following you, listening to your sermons and everything. (laughter)

Dr. Eric Mason  3:06  

People ask me for podcasts all the time now. They said, “Latasha, wants you to do a podcast.” I said, “Man, just schedule that. You don’t even have to go through no process. I’m gonna be on there. I’m gonna be on there cause I like what God is doing.” So, yeah.

Latasha Morrison  3:19  

Yeah, me too. I feel it’s just for such a time as this. Then I found that we’re the same age.

Dr. Eric Mason  3:25  

Wow. Wow. Wow.

Latasha Morrison  3:27  

I was reading something. Oh, you know, I think it was on Instagram you posted. I was like, “Oh my God, we’re about the same age and our birthdays around the same time.” And I was like that’s what it is! (laughter)

Dr. Eric Mason  3:33  

1973. Hallelujah God. (laughter) 

Latasha Morrison  3:40  

It’s that Gen X.

Dr. Eric Mason  3:45  

That Gen X.

Latasha Morrison  3:46  

It’s that Gen X. We still trying to hold it down now. They don’t try to give us credit for what we created now.

Dr. Eric Mason  3:54  

Listen, we the last folks standing. (laughter)

Latasha Morrison  3:59  

So anyway, tell our audience a little bit about who you are. And just a little bit of your background and where you’re pastoring now.

Dr. Eric Mason  4:11  

So my name is Eric Mason. I’ve been married for almost 24 years. I have four living children. And I’ve been in ministry for 27, going on 28 years. So I was born and raised in Washington DC, grew up during the crack era, of course, like most people in my generation, the post heroin, crack era, PCP all that. Became a Christian in college, second year college, and got my call into ministry a few a year after that. And so I planted a church, it’ll be 15 years planted next month, next September 17th, will be our 15th anniversary as a church. Planted this church in the inner city of Philadelphia and we helped plant 44 churches from Malawi, Africa to South Central LA. Written five books and just glad to be here.

Latasha Morrison  4:12  

Okay, you’ve been busy.

Dr. Eric Mason  4:14  

A little something. A little something. (laughter) 

I was talking to one of my friends. And I was saying, “Yeah, I have a couple podcasts to record.” And you know, and she was like, “Well, you know who’s gonna be on your podcast?” And I said, “Dr. Mason.” She talking about, “Dr. Eric Mason?! The Eric Mason?!”

Hilarious. (laughter)

Latasha Morrison  5:36  

“The Eric Mason? The book, Urban Apologetics!” And she actually read your book. And she was telling me that her son, he just went off. He’s a freshman in college in Ohio. And she had him read the book. And he loved it so much, it like connected with him. He’s an intellectual. And it really connected with him, that he’s really rethinking like, God is just like, “Okay, what direction I want to go into?” because he loves conversations and just the conversations that you’re having. There are other people now having them but it’s so needed, like your work is so needed. Your church is so needed. Your books are so needed. And so it’s incredible to have you on here and just to get to share you with the Be the Bridge audience.

Dr. Eric Mason  6:27  

Honors all mine. Honors all mine.

Latasha Morrison  6:27  

So you planted a church, and you just wrote this book about Urban Apologetics. And at first, when I read it, I was like, okay, Urban Apologetics that’s gonna give people like, “Why do they always got to divide us up?” You know what I’m saying? (laughter) But then when you broke that down, because we always think of urban as a place. But urban is really not a place and you explain that. You said urban is really a culture now. And you see, and I was like, that’s that Gen X talking right there! (laughter) I was like okay, I get it, I get it. And it’s so needed and just how you communicate with our community, specifically, also the Black community and just the knowledge that you drop on your Instagram and all the things. And so, you said restoring Black did dignity with the gospel. Why did you write this book?

Well, again, thank you for having me on. I appreciate all the work you are doing. So writing this book was really the book I would have wanted when I became a Christian. Because I know you remember what it was like to be a Christian on a college campus in the early 90’s. And I went to HBCU.

And I didn’t.

Dr. Eric Mason  8:00  

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was hard among even what HBCU, or you know general population university, among African Americans, the way hip hop was against Christianity back then. I mean, you had Tribe Called Quest, Leaders of the New School, Public Enemy, you had all, and they weren’t just 5% is all about blackness. They were anti Christian. Like it was crazy during that time. And then from the blaxploitation movies in the 70’s, all the way up to the shows we had, the preacher, the Black preacher was always presented as the sheisty showman. You know? And so all the way up until now, you know, every 20 to 30 years, you have this kind of awareness of, Black people have this racial awareness that, “Oh, things haven’t changed, really.” You know? And so, that’s not just Christian, I’m just talking about in general, global Black people, the pan African populace pretty much is like, “Oh, nothing’s changed.” And so what ends up happening though, is it goes on a curve and it kind of dies. And you’ll have some people during the non, I’ll say conscious period if you will, Black consciousness period, where they seem weirded, “Why you got did that on the dashiki? Why you always saying…” But now, it’s like, everybody’s like that. You remember, you used to make fun of the people on the show, like Living Single had the dude that was like, “My brother! My…”

Latasha Morrison  9:34  

Like on Good Times, on Good Times, little Michael. (laughter)

Dr. Eric Mason  9:37  

Yes, yes. Yes. Yeah. 

Latasha Morrison  9:38  

Michael was woke. (laughter)

Dr. Eric Mason  9:41  

He was woketified. And listen, and so that type of person was always, uhhhh. But now, because of the internet issues have more of a long shelf life.

Latasha Morrison  9:54  

Yeah. That’s true.

Dr. Eric Mason  9:55  

And one of the things that’s had a longer shelf life for us as African Americans is the racial divide in the world, and the racial divide in the Church. And so what ends up happening, there’s a lot of what’s going on called deconstruction. So you got people that are deconstructing their faith cross ethnically, but everybody is deconstructing for different reasons. Right?

Latasha Morrison  10:17  

Right.

Dr. Eric Mason  10:18  

And so I think in Black culture, African American culture, or pan African culture, if I could say that, the deconstruction surrounds the way Christianity was given to us, the color of Jesus, who were we prior to the transatlantic slave trade, and the churches complicitness in racism. Right? So when that began happening, you got mystery cults, like Hebrew Israelites, New Oppians, Noble Jew Ali’s group, Moorish Temple of Science. You have Kemetic Science. You have Nation of Islam, which is huge, in the sense of it’s not numbers, but influence. So it’s influencing just the general population, like Malcolm X did a number on the Black culture with how he engaged issues that needed to be said, but then he brought another spiritual component to it. And so because of that, we felt like because of that, that’s a response to dignity destruction. Because you asked me why did we call, why did I write the book, and we’re talking about restoring Black dignity with the gospel. So all of these groups are doing what the church is supposed to do for all people, and particularly those who’ve had any type of dignity destruction. The Gospel restores all people’s dignity. It makes us fully in the image of God through being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ, that as you know, he predestined us, Romans 8:29, “He predestined us to be conformed to the image of Christ.” That’s God’s goal for his people. And so he redeems our souls, but he also redeems our humanity. And one of the under taught things in the church is humanity redemption. We only see humanity redemption like in sex trafficking or in third world countries, but we never think about it in America and how Blacks we were put into slavery for 256 years, removed from physical slavery without any counseling, no counseling, like forget about economic plan. We were, I mean, if somebody got raped, Lord, God forbid, right now, we would take them to the hospital, we would make sure we got evidence, we would have a social worker in there, we’d have a psychologist in there, and we may have a preacher in there. And then from there, we would set them up with counseling, the person who did it will be looked for; they will get sued. So we got years of slavery with no follow up plan. And so that type of trauma was generationally handed down. Plus, it was compounded trauma with Black codes during the reconstruction. And then post that was Jim Crow. And then systemic racism, whether you believe it or not, still exists. And so all those things, because of the fall, is still weaved into different fabrics of our society as a system. So when I say that I can hear my white brothers and sisters saying, “Are you calling me a racist?” No, racism is not about individual racism. It’s about, it’s placed in systems. And so it’s not about saying, “Am I racist?” No, we’re not saying every white person is a racist. We’re just saying it’s in the systems. And so that effect has affected Black people. But you can act like racism doesn’t exist all you want, but Black people, our reaction out of the 24 million or how many of us are in America, that’s a major reaction. And there are slews of African Americans that don’t see Christianity anymore. Like I know most people say, “Man, you Black. You at least grew up in a church.” This generation don’t have a praying grandmother. When we say you, somebody had a praying Grandma. Their grandmother left and wasn’t in the Church, because she left the church and she was made to go to church every day. And so as the generations come, they’re getting further and further away from the former Black narrative of generations like ours, the boomers and busters and them. So writing the book was very important because it became I mean, it’s it’s it’s multi millions of views online, between YouTube and memes on Instagram, and Tik Toks about issues with Christianity and Black dignity. So that’s the long answer.

Latasha Morrison  14:53  

No, but that’s a good answer. Because that’s true. Because I didn’t necessarily grow up in the church, but it was my grandparents that took me to church. And people don’t have that. And as we move further and further away from that, that is the thing that when we talk about African Americans, that is the thing that has kept us. Because when we look at the abuse and the oppressiveness that people in the church had on Black bodies, but there was just something that they connected to that was different, like the spiritual side of this. Because you think about Frederick Douglass, like he was really saved, you know, what I’m saying like, and all he saw what he was seeing in other Christians, that people that were saying, they were Christians, he saw abuse in them, and he even talks about that. And you think about Harriet Tubman, “I’m just being led by the Spirit.” So that’s really good. And so what are some of the things that you would like to see people learn from this book and to be able to take with them?

Dr. Eric Mason  16:04  

Great question. One of the main things I wrote it for was for Christians to have answers. What ends up happening a lot of times is apostasy, many times, is not an event, it’s a process. And a waywardness, we can call it, the old church used to call it backsliding, you know, whatever you want to call it. You know, it’s a process usually, of slowly the enemy deconstructing you from connection to the faith. Now, I believe in eternal security. So you know, but I’m just talking about people who may be tears, but are needed the kingdom that we need to engage. Many people ask questions like, “Why did God let us go through slavery? Why do Black people everywhere seem to suffer?” We got to answer that; we got to answer that question. And writing it for those reasons, so that Christians could have answers for themselves but also for evangelism. I also wrote it for the non Christian, for the non Christian who wants to, in those different mystery cults, to begin to read, which they are, and then reading it and there being like, “Man, this is the first time I got an answer for this thing.” Like, for instance, you know, a person getting an answer about our, you know, Christianity, which was stolen from Egypt. And they got all these memes out there about Jesus is Mithra and Osiris and all these different things. And so people, there are videos out there, but you need something in print as well. And so answering those questions. But then, what’s been a very interesting, in particularly for your audience, this interesting that a lot of white brothers and sisters are reading the book, and they hit me up. And they say, “I had no idea Black people dealt with this stuff.” And they said, “Now I’m looking at your book or church totally different.” Because they said, “Now, I didn’t agree with, I didn’t even read the book. I just didn’t like the title. But now that I’m seeing what the impact that racism has had on the Black community, I’m reading your book in tears, because I didn’t know that these mystery cults were drawing people away because the church refused to invest gospel dignity into African Americans. We were complicit in racism, instead of joining our Black brothers and sisters, in making sure that the substandard way that they have been treated in the Western Hemisphere would be upgraded by us investing our resources and our ministries into gospel transformation, not only of their souls, but of their bodies and of their environments and of their mental health and of their environment.” So I think that’s very, very important.

Latasha Morrison  19:02  

Yeah, yeah. We’ll have to come back to the fact that folk like to talk about a book that they haven’t read, but we’ll come back to that. (laughter) That is the case, let me tell you. “I don’t like the title. I don’t know what it says, but I don’t like it.” (laughter)

Dr. Eric Mason  19:19  

Right, right. Right. That’s classic.

Latasha Morrison  19:20  

Right. Okay. When you start talking about, how has this played into, like, Woke Church, Urban Apologetics, how has this played into how you disciple and pastor at your church? Cause I know, you talk about, especially in Philly, all the things you’re encountering on the streets of Philly. And then I think about the history of your work, like in the prison system, and inner city and stuff, how has that played out in your work in Philly now, like in your church now?

Dr. Eric Mason  19:56  

That’s great. So really, to be honest, every book that I wrote comes from really doing it first. So I don’t ususually, pretty much no book that I’ve written comes out of a vacuum. Woke Church was, I remember years ago when you know killing a Black man publicly got publicized, it wasn’t when it started it was when it got publicized, the killing of unarmed Black man got publicized. And I did this thing called Nationwide Solemn Assembly. I called a solemn assembly for the church. It wasn’t a big deal, but whoever wanted to join, joined. And some churches in Philly, some Asian churches, white churches, an Indian church or two, and came and said, “Can we join you all to fast and pray for the week? And they came to our church building. And because I said, “You need to come here. We always come to y’all, no, y’all need to come here.” And so they came here to this neighborhood, some of them never been around here, really, you know. And then they came in, and we had an open mic and prayer. And we asked people how they were feeling. And I can tell you, we just had a lament, of time of just lamenting where people just came to the mic, and just gave them two minutes, a minute each or two minutes. And just the weeping that was going on, and a guy admitting his racism and how he’s racist, “and I go to this church and coming in here.” And so that type of stuff, is what ended up creating an environment from I need to write on this. And we had several of those, several of those events like that when we were trying to basically bring churches together, so that we can have some dialogue. But then also, we can do some work together, we can minister together. And that’s been huge in network, not only in that, but we’re also doing a lot of work with literacy. So right now, we are ramping up our after school program, a robust after school program that we’re running five days a week. We have staff, it’s not just volunteers, we will have staff that’s there. And so it’ll be pretty robust. We had a summer program for kids as well, we wanted to do this on them. And we hired some kids from the community, as well. We have a basketball league that we run, that becomes the program is the program for a lot of schools around here because they cut the budget of a lot of the school sports programs. And so our basketball league became a sports program for some of the middle school and elementary schools in the community. And so there are other things that I can go on and on and on. Our crisis pregnancy stuff that we do as well, where we know that the abortion rate is high. And so we partner with a ministry called Alpha Ministries that has a crisis pregnancy truck that has a in a park in our space here. And they they offer free pregnancy test and everything that the crisis pregnancy center would ask and heartbeat of the child. So that we can stop women from having abortions and creating options. So it’s a lot we worked on that ended up coming folding into the writing of these books. Yup.

Latasha Morrison  23:13  

I love it. I love it. It reminded me how my church I was a part of Atlanta, how we had leagues. And that league was a huge outreach, for basketball, baseball, all of those things. And so I love that the work that you’re doing, I follow you on the Insta, the Instagram, (laughter) You know how you feel like you know people because you follow them on Instagram? Where you feel like, “Okay, these are my friends, you know, but I’ve actually never met them. I don’t know them.” But they actually become your friends. And so you posted, you said, “In the era of misinformation, in the era of information memes and urban legends, biblical literacy is a must. We cannot assume that people understand the faith.” Especially this a little bit more, you know?

Dr. Eric Mason  24:05  

Yeah. So I remember, you know, when the preacher used to say, “Y’all know the story.” You can’t say that no more. They don’t know the story. Nobody’s going to vacation Bible School anymore.

Latasha Morrison  24:19  

I know, I know.

Dr. Eric Mason  24:21  

They going to play Minecraft and all of that. That’s Vacation Bible School. Tablets, you know, and they going to summer camps, but they’re not going to, and so there is there was no familiarity with the biblical narrative. And I would say, most Christians haven’t been systematically taught fundamental Bible doctrine. Yeah. So what ends up happening is a lot of our people go out unequipped, and particularly young people in the college, in the workforce, and in the life where adults really don’t have a framework for the fundamentals. And so when someone’s like in the conscious community, which is some of the groups that I was talking about earlier

Latasha Morrison  25:03  

Oh yeah, I’m gonna ask you about that. I’m gonna let you explain that.

Dr. Eric Mason  25:09  

So a lot of times they say, like a guy said he was used to be a Christian. And I said, “That’s impossible.” I said, “Well, you can’t used to be a Christian. That’s number one. I said number two, let me ask you a question. When did you trust Jesus the Savior?” “I don’t remember.” I said, “Did you get baptized?” “No. I just went with my family.” I said, “Well, were you involved?” Like, I was asking him all these questions. I said, “Do you understand the nature of Christ, anything?” So I said, “I think you went to church, you weren’t a Christian.” I said, “That’s not good that you say that, because you make it seem like you authentically a Christian, and Christianity didn’t offer you really anything. And you went into this particular genre of faith, when you really wasn’t really rooted in Christianity.” Now there are people out there that were are kind of rooted a bit in Christianity, in a sense of they were involved, but it’s so important in my mind for people to learn like today, because there’s so much misinformation out there about Jesus, so much misinformation about Christianity out there, that there is a need for because when you talk about the fact that people say Christianity is a white man’s religion, that’s a big thing in the Black community. That’s been like for 80 years a big saying in the Black community that the Nation of Islam basically promoted since 1935 and prior, going back to Noble Drew Ali, like 1919, 1916, or 1906 something like that. And when you realize that that’s a byword…when the Bible talks about a byword, that’s a word that becomes a slogan saying in a particular culture, that becomes a cultural valued belief. And so, when you look at Christianity being the white man’s religion, we have to fight that saying, “Why would you say is the white man’s religion?” Well they said, “It was forced on us during slavery.” And then we say, “Well, no, do you know that Christianity thrived in Africa for 1,000 years, from Acts all the way up to post the Great Schism? That there was a Coptic papacy for 1000 years? And did you know that Tertullian was actually an African? Did you know that Origen actually was an African? Athanasius?” You know.

Latasha Morrison  27:35  

But they don’t know any of those people. Or even if they know them they thought they were white. Yeah.

Dr. Eric Mason  27:40  

Yes. Yeah. But it’s because, and J. Daniel Haynes, a scholar, a white scholar, great white scholar, Old Testament scholar, wrote an article in 1995 in a periodical on racism in the academy. And he talks about how it’s known in conservative academy and nonconservative academy that there is a tinge of racism in the way even certain words are translated like Ethiopian instead of Nubian, or, you know, all of those different. Egyptian but not knowing that in the 25th dynasty, and talking about in, actually, in Isaiah 25, I think the first 25 chapters when he talks to Egypt, when he talks to the Egyptians, during the time that Isaiah is prophesying, he’s not even talking to the normal Egyptians. He’s talking to actually Nubians. Because the Nubians were ruling Egypt at that time, and they were the dark, they were the Black like people like me.

Latasha Morrison  28:04  

They looked like us!

Dr. Eric Mason  28:15  

You know, and so not knowing that type of stuff, Black presence. That’s why you have people like Dr. Evans and Dwight McKissic writing on Black presence in the Bible, because there have been ways that we’ve been trying to work on restoring…just the whole Black dignity thing has been a huge deal.

Latasha Morrison  29:03  

Yeah, yeah. And that’s just stuff that we just, we don’t know. And especially like how it’s tied to seminaries. I’m in seminary now. So I’m like taking notes, but the great thing is, I can make suggestions. And so like, you know, your book is gonna go on that list that I’m making the suggestions I’m making. This is so good. And so we, you know, I wanted to go back to because we’re hearing a lot about decolonizing. And so, when I think about decolonizing I’m thinking about some of the stuff that we just talked about. So when I talk about decolonizing I’m thinking about things and how things have been interpreted and how when I would close my eyes as this 19 year old girl that became a, 20 year old girl that became a Christian, what I saw was white Jesus. You know what I’m saying? So when I’m talking about that or deconstructing our faith, it doesn’t mean the same thing to everyone. And what I’m noticing is some of this deconstructing like the focus isn’t on idols or things that we made are idols or it’s not on sin. But it’s like, it’s the gospel. Some of us are like, it’s like we just deconstructing Jesus out of it. So explain the need to deconstruct, but the pitfalls and the missteps that we must be aware of while we’re doing this deconstructing. Because I hear a lot of this and I think it’s leading people to a place where it’s taking them far from Christ.

Dr. Eric Mason  29:03  

Yeah. That’s a super relevant question. I’m actually about to start a series week after next on deconstructing your faith.

Latasha Morrison  30:50  

Oh, great.

Dr. Eric Mason  30:53  

Because I got to. Because I pastor mostly millennials and Gen Z, so I got to. Yeah, so deconstructing and decolonizing I would say is two different things, but can be related.

Latasha Morrison  31:05  

Right.

Dr. Eric Mason  31:06  

Decolonizing is pulling the way in which those who have controlled the academy and the history, material wise, pulling out of it the part that’s culture, white culture specifically. But decolonizing can be a form of deconstructing. Right? Deconstructing is really, there’s multiple forms of deconstructing. There’s one way of deconstructing where you asking a question, if you grew up in a church, usually it happens for people that grew up in the church…usually people that were horrible, like me, and weren’t Christian, and was already anti Christian when he first started college, we don’t go through a deconstruction. Mostly people who all they knew was Christianity usually go through a significant deconstruction, because they’ve never been out in the world usually or been around where people really ask hard questions. So the deconstructing, one layer is, “Is the faith mine?” If you grew up in a Christian home, you say, “Is that my mom’s faith or was that my faith? My mom and dad’s faith or was that my faith?” You know, that’s a major form of deconstructing. My son is about to go to college next week and we’re talking about that. Another form of deconstructing is, it’s multiple entryways to deconstructing. It’s like when people say that, “Jesus wasn’t a historical person,” right? Or even “Jesus, Christianity is the white man’s religion. And Christianity is complicit in this and racism.” What you begin to do is, that person that’s deconstructing will begin to think in their mind, “Man, is Christianity, like really a creation that’s utilized to just enslave people? I mean, when you look at the history of Christianity, when I look at history, man, it seems like they were complicit in slave trade, they were complicit in Jim Crow. They’re complicit today because of the way they vote and act and what they contribute to, and I see so much hypocrisy. Then we look back at the crusades. Man, then I look at the Bible. Yeah, you look in the Bible, God called for genocide. Do I really believe that it was okay for God to give those people that land? And for him to just kill them? He ordered their murder? Why would God do that?” Like that. Theonomy is another one, where you’ve got the problem of evil. All those things and trying to reconcile how can a great God and all those different things, people struggling through deconstructing. So deconstructing…Actually, I was just looking at a video on it, because I was looking, I was just hearing from young people, and what their view of deconstructing is. A young lady said, “Deconstructing,” …and this is a very good definition, she said, “is the process of re evaluating your core beliefs.” And I thought that was a really – I’m gonna use it – it is a really good definition of is the process of you saying, “Are these really mine? And do I have these beliefs? And what do I need to have at the core of what I believe?” And usually because Christianity provides for us core beliefs, it’s almost centric, really, to having to be dealt with as a pillar in someone’s life. And that deconstruction can be hefty.

Tandria Potts  34:50  

Wow, incredible insights. Don’t go anywhere. We’re going to pause for a quick moment and we’ll be right back.

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Tandria Potts  36:30  

Thanks for staying with us. Let’s get back to our conversation.

Latasha Morrison  36:34  

That’s good. That’s good. Because I know we’re hearing it all the time. And I love the work that you know, the work that you’re doing, but also Lisa Fields with the Jude 3 Project. I love what she’s doing. I mean, she’s killing it. I’m so proud of my folk now, she’s killing it. And just, you know, to engage the Black community. But then also on the other side of that, like you said when when other people, like our white brothers and sisters, start understanding it and seeing the connecting and the context, they can also be a part of the solution. Because these are not just books that are being, Urban Apologetics is not just for Black people. This is for Christians.

Dr. Eric Mason  37:19  

Absolutely.

Latasha Morrison  37:18  

These are books that they should be getting and teaching from also. I believe your books can assist in those efforts. Are you seeing this understanding of apologetics grow in the Black community more?

Dr. Eric Mason  37:35  

Yes, it’s exploding. Because before writing the book, we were all answering different questions online because all of this deconstructing was coming up.

Latasha Morrison  37:44  

Right.

Dr. Eric Mason  37:44  

And so I felt like I was getting bombarded by all of these questions about the Christian faith. About whether or not Christianity came from Egypt. “What do you think about Hebrew Israelites?” “Do you think we’re the true Israelites?” “Do you think the Ashkenazis and the Cossacks are converts? Or are they ethnic Jews?” And, you know,

Latasha Morrison  38:04  

Oh my gosh, yeah.

Dr. Eric Mason  38:06  

You know, so you just just getting all of these questions. “Did they hide this from us?” And send me conspiracy theory documents.

Latasha Morrison  38:14  

Oh, my goodness, yeah.

Dr. Eric Mason  38:15  

Everything from the Isis Papers, to the Destruction of Black Civilization, Metu Neter, all these different books that were 30 years ago, we were reading. And so you know, in all of those books have new life. Windsor writing his book from Babylon to Timbuktu and talking about, you know, the transatlantic slave trade being Black people, just so answering all those questions. So that’s where, that’s really where it all began in 2012ish 13. When people started asking me a ton of questions. And it was like, man, we have to resource this because I’m, I don’t and it’s not going anywhere. But what’s beautiful about the resource is now other books, other authors and you know, in the book, they’re writing their own books. And so, you know, Jerome Gay just brought out The Whitewashing of Christianity. Brandon Washington has a book coming out – he has a deal with Zondervan now. Tiffany Gill is already award winning historian and writer, but she’s coming out with more work on her stuff. Sarita Lyons is working on a resource. And so, it’s a lot of people that’s working on resources that I think, and so this whole urban apologetics movement is growing. There are tons of YouTube channels out there now. You have the Tru-ID Podcast. You have Urban Logia with Damon Richardson. You have Urban Perspective, which even though Urban Perspective isn’t fully an urban apologetics channel, he deals with urban apologetics issues. And you have The Bodega Ladies, The Bodega Ladies are a group of Black women who are female apologists, who are really really in to helping answer questions, great woman. And so it’s a lot of people out there. And of course, Jude 3, you know, she’s been doing it for a minute. And so that, it’s just, and this stuff has inspired, really, the work has kind of inspired other Christians to just be more Christian in how they interact with people in both love and in both, being able to give a reason for the hope that is within them and contend for the faith. So, yeah.

Latasha Morrison  40:27  

Yeah, I love it. I love what’s happening. A couple of the people I haven’t heard of that you mentioned, but The whitewashing of Christianity, that’s the next one that I want to get. I told you, I’m like a little behind. I just heard about that one, too. So, you know, there’s so much that’s happening, there’s so many tools out there. Someone had sent me a message talking about all the books that are coming out to talk about, you know, racism not being systemic and all these things. I said, well, those have always been around, that’s nothing new. First of all, they’ve always been around. And so, you know, publishers, money is money to them. So they’re gonna publish books about race and then books about, theire gonna do it all. But it’s good to hear like what you’re saying one of the things I was telling the person is like all of these books, like I know so many people of color that are getting book deals and the message and writing books are not out there. So you think about Urban Apologetics just a little bit out there, but like you said, like getting it all, like the depth that your book has, like, it’s just like the beginning. Because there’s so much more that you could even written about. So I know there’s gonna be even more. One of the things, you did this post and you said, “Be careful of what spiritual doors you open. Deuteronomy 18:9-13 and Colossians 2:8.” I wanted you to expound on that because I knew exactly what you were talking about. Because I see it, but it’s like there’s this like fine line. So you know, explain to the audience kind of like what you were you talking about, in that when you said be careful which spiritual doors you open.

Dr. Eric Mason  42:19  

Yeah, so right now, of course, a lot of people are exploring alternative forms of spirituality. So big thing now is, you know, you kind of hear it in slang culture, but that slang culture comes from a spiritual culture. So if you say, you know, you say “Are you coming over to so and so’s house?” “Yeah, what’s the vibe over there?” You know, and the vibe just is not necessarily demonic. It can be. But that vibe and you know, “I get bad vibes off of him or her” and that type of thing. And so you know, the whole burning sage to cleanse the atmosphere. All of that stuff is coming up. Talking to ancestors, Yoruba religions. Right now people don’t realize they think that they’re returning to their original religions. You’re having that with even our Brown brothers and sisters who you have them going back to different ancient or natural religions and people are more into Voodoo now. It’s a lot of stuff. My wife went to get her hair done and they had a tarot card reader there for free for people who wanted to. I said, “the blood of Jesus!” (laughter)

Latasha Morrison  43:44  

At the Black salon? (laughter)

Dr. Eric Mason  43:48  

I was like y’all wild.

Latasha Morrison  43:49  

I thought they used to sell like chicken plates, and hair assessories, and CDs, and video tapes. (laughter) We getting readings now. It used to be you can go get you some good CDs from there.

Dr. Eric Mason  44:07  

I was like homegirl used to be on TV. “Come in now for your free reading.”  Remember her? (laughter)

Latasha Morrison  44:12  

Oh my god, yes. Oh my goodness. Yeah, it’s a slippery slope. It is.

Dr. Eric Mason  44:18  

So people don’t understand that…See, I think we don’t talk about spiritual warfare enough. And see I got a charismatic side to me. So I don’t mess, I don’t open the door, I don’t watch It, I don’t watch….See I believe see, I’m not legalistic, but.

Latasha Morrison  44:20  

The people crawling on the ceiling? (laughter)

Dr. Eric Mason  44:40  

Yeah, I don’t do that. The devil is a liar. And when you got kids they make you more sensitive to it. Because you get done watch something, your kids talking about they don’t want to go to bed. I just don’t know. You know, you feel funny. You know? I don’t want to be in the house alone right now. (laughter)

Latasha Morrison  45:00  

Poltergeist was enough. Poltergeist was enough. “Come into the light!” Nah. (laughter)

Dr. Eric Mason  45:07  

That traumatized me for 13 years. 

Latasha Morrison  45:10  

I’m still traumatized.

Dr. Eric Mason  45:11  

Cause I grew up in DC. So, I know where the steps are. Georgetown University. Yeah so, and some of this is facetious, but most of it is like really, like a lot of people see their explorations as connecting. And one of the things I did a video on was talking about the fact that you don’t realize that witchcraft is getting illegitimate access to the spiritual realm. And the reason why God told us based on Deuteronomy 18 that he didn’t want us to get illegitimate access to the spirit realm – that’s what those things, necromancing and all those different things – because it opens a door that you can’t close on your own. That I mean, and I tell people and people are like wow, what Adam and Eve did in the garden was witchcraft.

Latasha Morrison  46:07  

Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Eric Mason  46:08  

That was witchcraft. They talked to the enemy. And they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They use a natural, something natural to get a higher power. That’s what they were doing. That was witchcraft. That was the first act of witchcraft recorded. And what it did was they got none of what they asked for and more evil than they could ever imagine. And that’s what these things do. The devil always over promises and under delivers. That’s how he rolls. And what ends up happening, “You can get your identity. You can get this.” And you see these people trying to astro project and they trying to, you know, open that third eye and the chakras and the pineal gland and all of this crazy method. And I’m like, okay. Okay.

Latasha Morrison  46:59  

I see like, you know, kinda and then some people even trying to connect to culture and history that has been lost, in a sense, you know, where they’re doing that. We were having this conversation with my goddaughter about the stones and you know, wearing the stones, and I was like, “Well, you know, some of that is also like, God created these stones.”

Dr. Eric Mason  47:19  

Absolutely.

Latasha Morrison  47:20  

“So, are you putting your faith in the stones? Or are you putting your faith in the God that created them?” Because that’s when that becomes an idol. You know, like, really having her like, yeah the stones are beautiful. But without God, there’s no power in the stones.

Dr. Eric Mason  47:37  

Yeah. I tell people, and I say, “God made sage. And I love me some sausage.” (laughter) But listen, I’m not like sage, do I believe burning sage is wrong? No. 

Latasha Morrison  47:59  

Right, right.

Dr. Eric Mason  48:00  

No. Burning incense, is it wrong? No.

Latasha Morrison  48:03  

No.

Dr. Eric Mason  48:03  

But if I believe, if I connect it to the spiritual thing that I’m invoking spiritually, then yes, that becomes an open door that affects you. And a lot of times, it’s not just, oh, the boogeyman around the corner, or there’s some dark figure walking through my house. Sometimes it’s opening the door that they can cause you to…and I believe in clinical depression that needs medicine. But there’s also spiritual depression. Right? There’s also can lead to licentiousness. The devil doesn’t just come in to scare you, he want to make himself at home and present himself as a buddy, so that he can cause you to go into all kinds of different things. And so, I think that, because he always offers you something that he knows you desire in order to get you into something that God doesn’t desire for you. And so, that’s very important for people to realize, and that’s cross ethnically, you ain’t got to be, you know, that’s all of us.

Latasha Morrison  49:08  

We’re seeing it, you know, with this generation, it’s like the times, it’s the culture right now. And I think, you know, one of the things, and this is not and I don’t want people to hear this is like, “Oh, this sounds very legalistic.” It’s not legalistic in the sense where like, you know, you’re saying like there’s nothing wrong with sage but what are you invoking through that. What is your mindset? So, I think legalism is saying it’s all bad. All tv is bad. All movies are bad. (laughter)

Dr. Eric Mason  49:42  

My mom said in the 50’s, “Don’t play cards.” They used to say that and all that.

Latasha Morrison  49:47  

Yeah, yeah. We hear these, like I know you keep saying, you heard these statements of, you know, Christianity being a white man’s religion. We kind of know where this myth comes from. How do you engage that argument? And just recently, I got to see some of the pages of the the slave Bible.

Dr. Eric Mason  50:12  

Yeah.

Latasha Morrison  50:13  

And I mean, first of all, there’s like only two chapters in Genesis. I’m trying to think maybe only a couple chapters of Exodus. I mean, there’s like, especially the Minor Prophets, like all gone. Ain’t no such thing is Micah. It’s just like all gone. And so when you think about that, oh, my God, I’m like, the audacity! I’m like, oh, my goodness.

Dr. Eric Mason  50:41  

Absolutely.

Latasha Morrison  50:41  

You know, changing the entire Bible to oppress like, I mean, I don’t know if we will ever understand the weight of all of that and then to see how our people, our ancestors still held on to this faith.

Dr. Eric Mason  51:00  

That’s right.

Latasha Morrison  51:02  

That was like, I mean, that just blows my mind. You know, we know that’s where some of this is coming from. And you know, and we talked about that. But you know, where do  you feel like what are some other things that people are thinking when they say this is the white man’s religion? You know, especially as we look at the church now today and what’s happening culturally,

Dr. Eric Mason  51:25  

Yeah, the white Jesus, the image of white Jesus. There’s a guy named, Umar Johnson, and I agree with this thing. I don’t know agree with everything he say. But he said, the white Jesus is one of the most damaging things that’s been presented to the Black community. And people don’t realize it. People say, “Well, his color doesn’t matter.” And I’ll say, “Well, why did you paint them white if it doesn’t matter?

Latasha Morrison  51:49  

Exactly, exactly.

Dr. Eric Mason  51:50  

If color doesn’t matter why even paint him? So I think that the image of Christ has been a center of that whole idea for so long, that its effect, I mean, people say, not only are you oppressing me, you put me into slavery, but when I look up, I see Jesus looks more like you than me. Which, what does that do psychologically to a person or a people? So that type of stuff is a major thing. The Bible’s been changed. That’s another thing. I mean, there are an infinite amount of arguments about that, you know, that Hebrew was a created language, and it wasn’t created to the Septuagint, 250 years before Christ. And the process by which the Septuagint was translated, and then talking about the Bible was created in Europe. Jesus was created at, Christianity was created at the Council of Nicea. And I have to say, I asked someone, “Well if Jesus was created at the council of Nicea,” I asked them, “Who was there? I said, “Tell me who was there? Name 10 people that was at the Council of Nicea. They like, “Uhhhh.” “How many bishops were invited and how many actually came? Who was the main spokesperson, what was the issues that was talked about it at Nicea? Do you know?” And then I went to my, I got two copies of the Church Fathers, all volumes. And I said, “We have the documents from what was dealt with at Nicea right there.” And so just being, just all the different types of things. But there’s so much folklore going on right now, going on against Christianity, that, you know, the other one, this is a big one. This is a real big one. That Christianity promotes misogyny. Because when a woman gets raped – Exodus 22, Deuteronomy 22 – she’s forced to marry her oppressor. You know, stuff like that. So having to answer that question with people about why would the Bible write that? You know, these a lot of, it’s huge, right? And that’s not just Black people, too. It’s very interesting. Yeah.

Latasha Morrison  52:39  

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I will, you know, when we talk about this, there was something you said, like, justice as a kingdom issue. And I think that’s the mindset that I have, you know, like, understanding the kingdom of God and God’s kingdom agenda is separate from is different from empire, you know, and so how do you see that? Because you talk about that too a little bit in your writing.

Dr. Eric Mason  54:50  

When you say empire, explain what you mean by that.

Latasha Morrison  54:52  

Well, like the systems of the world, like the systems of the world. When you talk about the kingdom of God and like the system of the world like the U.S. Like justice is not just something that’s a U.S. problem. But when we start talking about the inclusive Kingdom of God, this is stuff like Afghanistan. This is stuff like, you know, all God’s people, you know, we’re so and so that’s kind of like what I’m referring to.

Dr. Eric Mason  55:18  

So the question though, I want to make sure I got the question right.

Latasha Morrison  55:21  

No, I’m just saying how do you, you kind of wrote that, you said that. Justice is a kingdom issue. How do you view that>

Dr. Eric Mason  55:33  

So, you know, in Matthew 23:23 it says, Jesus says, “Woe to you Pharisees and Sadducees for you tithe dill, mint, and cumin. But you have neglected the weightier matters of law, mercy, justice and faithfulness.” And Jesus basically calls justice one of the most important issues in God’s word. That’s a huge statement. And so when you when you look at the fact that when you look at the fact that that’s a very important thing. And God’s word is mentioned so much in the Bible, and it’s talked about in the Bible. And we’re biblicists and we do biblical theology. And we were talking in hermeneutics class, that repetition is a sign of emphasis. So if repetition exegetically is a sign of biblical emphasis, then we need to emphasize what God emphasizes. And if Jesus pulls justice as a hermeneutical lens to use in interpreting the Bible, we should. And really, the point of justice, all throughout Scripture, is to know right and wrong and to judge wisely and rightly, based on Scripture in right wrongs. That’s at the end of the day, if we distill it all down, that’s what justice is, because justice is a reflection of God’s character. And so, so now, fundamentally, in many ways, Justice is the center of the gospel. Why is the justice in the Gospel? Because Christ, because Christ satisfied the wrath of God justly, not unjustly? Even though he died and unjustly death? We didn’t receive justice. Jesus received our justice, so that we wouldn’t have to experience God’s judgment. That’s the gospel. Right. And so, so it’s such an important, it’s such an important, I mean, one of God’s perfections his essence is justice. Right? You know, I know they argue about is it is justice an expression of his character or isn’t? Anyway.

Latasha Morrison  58:15  

And it goes hand in hand with righteousness.

Dr. Eric Mason  58:15  

That’s right. That’s right. So I just think, when we talk about justice, you can’t be a Christian and not deal with justice. It’s unchristian to ignore justice.

Latasha Morrison  58:23  

I heard you talk about that. And I just had to get that. There’s so many things, but I know we have to come to an end. But I wanted to say this, you you were talking about, and I’ve been talking to several Black pastors. What I heard you say, I think you were you were teach, I think it was one of your, a series that you were teaching. And you were talking about, like how, I think your church is predominantly Black, but you have a lot of white people that come to your church.

Dr. Eric Mason  59:04  

Well it used to be multi-ethnic until I talked about justice.

Latasha Morrison  59:06  

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And you were talking about that, where a lot of Black pastors I know that have multi-ethnic churches, now that they’ve started focusing on justice or teaching the full gospel, you know, they’ve had white flight. And one of the things you were saying is like, you know, you were talking about how a lot of people are coming in to the church, and a lot of white people are attending the church coming to the message and, you know, you think you’re doing something you said, but you’re not in small group, you’re not engaged socially, you’re not engaged relationally. What is that? So how are you a part of this community when you’re not engaging with it? That’s a conversation I’m having with a lot of pastors where you do have like this, maybe this multi-ethnic and multicultural thing, but when it’s a Black pastor what I’m seeing is,

Dr. Eric Mason  59:06  

Uh oh, uh oh, uh oh.

Latasha Morrison  59:19  

the white people are not as engaged socially and relationally. And then the whole dynamic of even some of the good white folk, when it comes to having a Black pastor, the nuance, like just the issues that are dealt with. And like, they would never name it. 

Dr. Eric Mason  1:00:25  

That’s right.

Latasha Morrison  1:00:25  

But they will make every excuse. And then you know, they disappear. But I mean, I just had this conversation. I go to a church like that, also. My church is multi-ethnic, and the more that we focused on the full gospel in that sense you’ve seen that happen. But yet, and still, you don’t see that and I’m seeing a decline in Black people at predominately white churches, too, especially with everything, you know, that has happened. But I mean, there has to be a study on that, too.

Dr. Eric Mason  1:00:58  

Can you imagine having to answer to Jesus that you left a church because the pastor was calling you to value a person because they weren’t treated justly? Can you imagine standing before Jesus and having to answer that question?

Latasha Morrison  1:01:15  

No, no. I mean. And I think everybody that’s listening needs to picture themselves and see that. See yourself like, what excuse will you have? What words would you have? And to really think about the under layers of that, like, when you don’t want even a Black pastor telling you what to do. Or you can’t receive from that type of leadership. I had this one Black pastor tell me he had some white members and they were like “I don’t, sometimes I don’t invite people to church, because it’s like does the church have to be so Black?

Dr. Eric Mason  1:02:02  

Wow.

Latasha Morrison  1:02:02  

Talking about the worship style. And then they said, “Why do we have to celebrate Black History Month?” And I’m thinking, like, what did you say? Like, that’s almost just say, “Just leave. Why are you here?” Have you had to deal with any of that?

Dr. Eric Mason  1:02:25  

Not no more. I just refuse. Listen, I used to be stressed out about that, sis, and then I got to the point where I had to read John 15, “Every branch in me that bears fruit I prune it that it may bear more fruit.”

Latasha Morrison  1:02:39  

Amen.

Dr. Eric Mason  1:02:40  

So I’m just like, you know what? I love everybody. I love my brothers and sisters in Christ that are white. However, only some of them can handle not having a pastor that’s white. That’s the bottom line. And then they’ll talk, they’ll say stuff or do stuff with me that they would never say to their white pastor.

Latasha Morrison  1:03:03  

Yeah.

Dr. Eric Mason  1:03:04  

I mean, they would never say it, you know? And even even some African Americans as well who are more culturally blind to how they view white people. That makes me even more mad. Because if a white man says it, it’s game. If the Black man says it, we got to question him and research, you know. And so to see, we got to question him by going to a white man, even though I have more degrees than the one you’re going to see if what I’m saying is correct. And that’s very, that’s a hyper minority. But I just think that, you know, just the challenge with the way the church is now, I used to say this all the time and people got mad. I mean, I don’t care if they get mad again. You will know racial reconciliation is happening when white people can submit to Black people.

Latasha Morrison  1:03:57  

Yup!

Dr. Eric Mason  1:03:57  

When you could submit to a Black person without this tinge of cultural and heart frustration, but it’d be willful submission to Black leadership, even if Black women are leading in the church. And a white women can submit to that Black woman and not feel like she has to be her consultant.

Latasha Morrison  1:04:23  

Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Eric Mason  1:04:04  

You know, you’ll know. Sometimes there’s that passive aggressiveness they can come with, “I’ll be under your leadership, but only as long as I can influence you.”

Latasha Morrison  1:04:24  

Yeah, yeah. “I can teach you something. I’ll show you how to make this more of a multi-ethnic church.”

Dr. Eric Mason  1:04:43  

And then what ends up happening is they don’t know. And then the ones that, it’s funny, I’ll have a panel on race and and somebody will say, “Why don’t you have any white people up there?” It’s like, “What did you just say to me?” You know?

Latasha Morrison  1:04:52  

Why are you talking? 

Dr. Eric Mason  1:05:02  

So I think that it’s very important that they’re just be a racial IQ growth in the body of Christ.

Latasha Morrison  1:05:13  

Yeah, that’s so good. I mean, I know your son just graduated. You just talked about like, I had a question where it was like I was gonna ask you what does reconciliation look like to you, but you just nailed that one. It looks like when white folks can submit to Black leadership. 

Dr. Eric Mason  1:05:33  

That’s right. That’s right.

Latasha Morrison  1:05:36  

What are you still learning? What are you still learning? And what are you still lamenting?

Dr. Eric Mason  1:05:43  

I’m still learning that I have a lot of growth. You know, I don’t feel like I read enough. I just feel like I’m always,

Latasha Morrison  1:05:53  

You don’t feel like you read enough? (laughter)

Dr. Eric Mason  1:05:55  

Yeah, I just don’t feel like, I feel like there’s so many things in my life on behind the curve.

Latasha Morrison  1:06:00  

Okay.

Dr. Eric Mason  1:06:01  

Um, that I’m fighting to be ahead of the curve and that type of thing. So I think that’s, which makes me hungry. And I’m always you know, striving and working with, you know, Colossians 1:29 with the energy that he provides. And so yeah, yeah.

Latasha Morrison  1:06:17  

Yeah, yeah. What things are you lamenting?

Dr. Eric Mason  1:06:21  

Oh, man. I’m lamenting, one of the heaviest things I’m lamenting is the fact that the neighborhood that our church is in half of the schools are closing down, are closed actually, not closing down, are closed. And so kids are packed into classrooms, 35 to 40, in a classroom. And a lot of the churches are closing in the community. So that’s a huge, I was driving around the community and I do a prayer drive, either once or twice a week. And, you know, and I just scoured, because it’s an urban area so everything is changing all the time. But I’m seeing churches that have a no occupancy thing on the front because the church is falling apart and so they weren’t allowed to meet there. Church ends up closing. So it’s been, that’s something that I’ve been lamenting. Yeah.

Latasha Morrison  1:07:18  

Okay. Okay. And the last thing is, I know your wife, she had some health challenges the last couple years. And so I, you know, me and a lot of people have been praying. How’s she doing?

Dr. Eric Mason  1:07:33  

Yeah, yeah. So, my wife’s doing a lot better. She still deals with chronic illness. She doesn’t really know what what every day is gonna be like, whether emotionally or physically. So she’s still dealing with it. But as far as the way she’s been hospitalized and gone through those different things, it’s not as intense. It’s just more at a, you know, last few years was a 10, but right now, she’s probably about at a three or four.

Latasha Morrison  1:07:59  

Well that’s good to hear. Just so people know how to be praying for you. Praying for you and praying for your family. Now, the last final thing is you are working on something next. I know you’re working on a lot of stuff. But I saw this thing called Tour of the Lands of the Bible?

Dr. Eric Mason  1:08:17  

That’s right. That’s right.

Latasha Morrison  1:08:19  

With you and a whole bunch of folk.

Dr. Eric Mason  1:08:22  

Yeah, Brian Loritts, Albert Tate, and Lecrae ended up coming on to. So we’re going on a tour, Lands of the Bible. We’re a part of a tour that we are a part of, and we’re going over to Rome, we’re going to Israel, we’re going to Greece, we’re going to Turkey. And it’s going to be a cruise, and we’re going to get off of those different stops. And it’s at key biblical spots, like in Corinth and Colossia and Jordan and parts of Judah. And we’ll go to those different places, and we will do biblical devotions at those locations.

Latasha Morrison  1:08:59  

Okay, and so where can people find more information about that?

Dr. Eric Mason  1:09:02  

Well, the so that will be, let me pull it out.

Latasha Morrison  1:09:07  

And we can add it in the show notes, so don’t worry. (laughter)

Dr. Eric Mason  1:09:11  

Yes, it’s called Land of the Bible Cruise. And if you put that in Google, it’ll just come up. But it’s eo.travel/biblecruise2022. Yeah.

Latasha Morrison  1:09:24  

And we’ll make sure that we put that information out for people to find more information on all that and then where to find you. And then also you can purchase Dr. Mason’s books at wherever books are sold. You have a church podcast, I think, like a lot of your sermons are on podcasts, and I want to say are they on video, too?

Dr. Eric Mason  1:09:48  

Yeah, they’re on YouTube. Epiphany Fellowship.

Latasha Morrison  1:09:53  

And so I saw that, you know, we can’t talk about all these heavy things without ending with something a little bit light. You’re a foodie, you’re a foodie.

Dr. Eric Mason  1:10:03  

Yeah, I got issues.

Latasha Morrison  1:10:04  

You got issues, right? So you’re in Philly. And so for those of us who have the makeshift Philly subs, what’s the best place in Philly to get a sub? What’s your favorite?

Dr. Eric Mason  1:10:16  

It’s according to which kind. Because a lot of people don’t know, Philly is the sub capital of America.

Latasha Morrison  1:10:21  

Okay, okay.

Dr. Eric Mason  1:10:37  

So, you know, when you’re looking at a cheese steak, it’s a couple spots I would go to. You got to go to the original spot. You know, Philly people gonna do like this. They say it’s commercial but how is the first place commercial? The first place you go, Pat’s. I’ll go Pat’s, Dalessandro’s, and John’s Roast Pork. But then another thing that people don’t know is that roast pork is a big Philly staple, as well as roast pork sandwiches, it’s tender pork and they put, some people for broccoli rabe on top or I like spinach or you just say greens. And then they dip it in the au jus. Lord Jesus. Change your life. And then hoagies, hoagies you can go anywhere. I mean, there’s so many hoagie spots in Philly. Because there’s a lot of Italians in Philly.

Latasha Morrison  1:11:19  

Okay. Okay. Yeah. And I love that water ice y’all got up there.

Dr. Eric Mason  1:11:23  

Yes, ma’am. Water ice will change your life, change your life.

Latasha Morrison  1:11:28  

Right, right. Yeah, I got a chance to come there at this, it was Voices. They had something a couple years ago at, what’s the church? I always forget the name.

Dr. Eric Mason  1:11:43  

Is it Tenth Pres?

Latasha Morrison  1:11:44  

Yeah.

Dr. Eric Mason  1:11:44  

You said Boice. Yeah, so that had to have been Tenth Pres.

Latasha Morrison  1:11:44  

Yeah. Yeah, I think it was, I think it was. Oh, no, it was the Voices.

Dr. Eric Mason  1:11:51  

Oh, Voices.

Latasha Morrison  1:11:52  

Yeah, the Voices Conference. I forget the name of it. The guy who founded, it’s slipping my mind, AME Zion. I can’t think of it.

Dr. Eric Mason  1:12:05  

Oh, you’re talking about, you’re talking about Mother Bethel.

Latasha Morrison  1:12:08  

Yes, yes, I think.

Dr. Eric Mason  1:12:10  

Bethel AME.

Latasha Morrison  1:12:11  

Yeah, I think that’s where we went. Yeah. But anyway, thank you so much for your time. I had like 50,000 other questions that I didn’t get to,

Dr. Eric Mason  1:12:20  

It’s all good. I had a great time.

Latasha Morrison  1:12:22  

to get to ask you, but just people will pick up your book and continue learning. You know, one of the great things is Be the Bridge, we do a lot of discipleship work, you know. And so this is like, I consider these resources and tools to help people know Christ better. Because if we know each other better relationally it helps us to know Christ better. So, yes, thank you so much for coming on and taking the time. 

Narrator  1:12:56  

Go to the donors table if you’d like to hear the unedited version of this podcast. Thanks for listening to the Be the Bridge podcast. To find out more about the Be the Bridge organization and or to become a bridge builder in your community, go to BetheBridge.com Again, that’s BetheBridge.com. If you enjoyed this podcast, remember to rate and review it on this platform and share it with as many people as you possibly can. You can also connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Today’s show was edited, recorded, and produced by Travon Potts at Integrated Entertainment Studios in Metro Atlanta, Georgia. The host and executive producer is Latasha Morrison. Lauren C. Brown is the senior producer. And transcribed by Sarah Connatser. Please join us next time. This has been a Be the Bridge production

Transcribed by https://otter.ai