Bonus | Juneteenth 2023 with Garrison Hayes

Narrator  

You are listening to the Be the Bridge Podcast with Latasha Morrison.

Latasha Morrison  

[intro] How are you guys doing today? It’s exciting!

Narrator  

Each week, Be the Bridge Podcast tackles subjects related to race and culture with the goal of bringing understanding.

Latasha Morrison  

[intro] …but I’m going to do it in the spirit of love.

Narrator  

We believe understanding can move us toward racial healing, racial equity, and racial unity. Latasha Morrison is the founder of Be the Bridge, which is an organization responding to racial brokenness and systemic injustice in our world. This podcast is an extension of our vision to make sure people are no longer conditioned by a racialized society but grounded in truth. If you have not hit the subscribe button, please do so now. Without further ado, let’s begin today’s podcast. Oh, and stick around for some important information at the end.

Latasha Morrison  

Be the Bridge community, this is Latasha. I am the, of course, the CEO and founder of Be the Bridge. I know you guys don’t get tired of that intro. But I do get tired of saying it. So, I am excited – because you know that’s the next thing that I’m going to say – I’m excited to have Mr. I’m not going to tell you who it is right now. I’m going to tell you in just a minute. But some of you may follow him on Instagram. If not, you need to start following him on Instagram and YouTube and all the places. But I have the fabulous, the wonderful, the brilliant Mr. Garrison Hayes. Garrison is a filmmaker, creator, and business owner who amplifies stories that will change the world. For real, I love the way he storytells. He draws you in; he pulls you in. With over 400,000 followers, I said 400,000 followers, on Tiktok and Instagram, Garrison has emerged as a influential voice in the intersection of history, culture, and progress. Garrison’s  innovative storytelling situates the headlines of today with the historical context that informs them. His content has garnered attention of millions landing him on MSNBC, Mother Jones, Yahoo News, US Today, as well as partnerships with the Smithsonian, Amazon Music, and Paramount Pictures, and more. Garrison is the founder and creative director of Kindred Media, a video-first creative agency at the cutting edge of culturally relevant corporate media. Kindred Media’s clients include Fortune 500 companies like Delta Airlines, Procter and Gamble, as well as top ranked higher education institutions. When not speaking or creating, Garrison enjoys spending time with his family, on the golf course with friends, and playing pickleball with his lovely wife, Simone. You know that was gonna give me pause. I could not, when I read this, Garrison, I was like, “He out here playing pickleball.” Now tell us a little bit, out of all that I read, you know, like, okay, doing stuff for the Smithsonian, Yahoo News, like all these different things. I want to hear about pickleball.

Garrison Hayes  

I know, I know. I know. I know.

Latasha Morrison  

So tell me a little bit. It’s like, okay, so it’s like, I heard that it’s like if table tennis and badminton had a child that’s pickleball. Is that it?

Garrison Hayes  

I like that. I mean, I say it’s like if table tennis or ping pong and actual tennis had a baby, it would be pickleball. It’s funny, my wife and I go out and play. We’re like, the only Black people in like the entire space.

Latasha Morrison  

Okay, that’s right. That’s right. I love it.

Garrison Hayes  

But it’s okay. It’s Alright. We enjoy it. We’re enjoying ourselves.

Latasha Morrison  

Brown face, white space.

Garrison Hayes  

That’s what I’m talking about. (laughter) Be the bridge is what I’m trying to say.

Latasha Morrison  

That’s right. (laughter)

Garrison Hayes  

We have a lot of fun. It’s a very, very fun game, easy to get into. And the thing that I love about it is like, you know, we’re relatively young, but we often play with people who are so much older than us.

Latasha Morrison  

Okay, like me, like me. Right? (laughter) My knees starting to give out. (laughter)

Garrison Hayes  

No, I’m saying like 70s. I’m telling you like late 60s, 70s. And they’re out there killing it. They’re not running all over the court, but the placement is perfect. And they have you running all over the court. So it’s a really great inclusive game that anyone can get into at any age, any skill level, any athleticism level. You can get into pickleball.

Latasha Morrison  

Okay, okay, I think I need to try pickleball then.

Garrison Hayes  

Try it out. Try it out.

Latasha Morrison  

I hear they have like leagues popping up everywhere. And it’s fun, right?

Garrison Hayes  

Yeah, it’s a lot of fun.

Latasha Morrison  

And it’s a little better, like is it like, do you have to have all the agility like you have when you play tennis?

Garrison Hayes  

No, no, no, no, no.

Latasha Morrison  

Cause I never made it out of tennis lessons. Like I played tennis lessons to start playing with the tennis league, but I never made it to the league. I got stuck in the lessons. (laughter) My knees got stuck in the lessons. This was years ago.

Garrison Hayes  

You’re gonna love, you’re gonna love pickleball. I need you to report back. Tell the listeners. 

Latasha Morrison  

I’m gonna try it. Okay, y’all hear that. We have a pickleball challenge we’re gonna do.

Garrison Hayes  

I love it.

Latasha Morrison  

But we’re gonna Be the Bridge on the pickleball court. (laughter) So, yeah. That’s cool. But, you know, one of the things that I love about what you’re doing is I love how, you know, context is everything. Historical context is everything with anything that we’re doing. And the more creative and luring that you can be with your storytelling, it really pulls people in. You know, I try to do that when I write, you know, with my books. I love to tell stories. Because that’s a part of it. And then when you take good storytelling with data, and you can, you know, put the the data with the storytelling. That’s some of the best information. And I mean, there’s so many storytellers on Instagram. I was just thinking about, I was like, all these book bans and all the things they’re doing, I was like, first of all, you have the internet. Most people are listening to audiobooks or downloading books anyway. I was like, people are just out of touch with what is really happening in society. And how, you know, you can take away books, but you know, there’s always going to be this oral history. And I mean, that’s what the Indigenous community, they trust their oral history more than a book. You know? And the same thing when you go to Africa, and you go into some of the villages, and the people are not just, you know, telling you the story, but they’re living the story out. And the same thing when you go to Egypt. I mean, when we go, and you look at the pyramids, and there’s a story that’s written in pictures on the wall. So like, oral history is really important. And, and even that’s, when we think about that, that’s even how like, as a person of faith, that’s even how scripture started. You know,?

Garrison Hayes  

That’s right.

Latasha Morrison  

Life lived. And so, so I think that’s really important. So tell, I gave your bio. Tell our audience, we have a very mixed audience. You know, these are bridge builders. These are world changers. These are people who are, you know, being transforming their lives so that they can transform their communities. You know, so we have a lot of racial bridge builders that are following us. There may have been something I missed. Tell our audience a little bit about who Garrison Hayes is outside of what I just read.

Garrison Hayes  

No, no, that’s great. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me on your show and being able to talk to your people, these bridge buildings, these world changers.

Latasha Morrison  

Yes!

Garrison Hayes  

It’s honestly a privilege and an honor to be here and to be with you. Listen, you know, to your point, I love storytelling. And I think I got a true appreciation for storytelling from my grandmother, who is a real storyteller.

Latasha Morrison  

Yes.

Garrison Hayes  

As long as I can remember, she’s been telling me stories from her childhood and adulthood and just like, really helping me to understand what it was like for her growing up. And so that’s given me this profound appreciation for the way the word is passed in the Black community in particular. There’s a power to the way we pass down stories, and the way we share our experiences from one generation to the next. And I feel this real appreciation or it really is more of a responsibility is what I’m trying to say, I feel a real responsibility to both carry those stories and then pass them down to the next generation. Which I’m not that old. Right?

Latasha Morrison  

I know. Right? (laughter)

Garrison Hayes  

Who am I to say the next generation? (laughter) But.

Latasha Morrison  

You are the generation. (laughter)

Garrison Hayes  

I’m the generation. But you know what’s so crazy about being on Tik Tok. It’s like, you know, you mentioned book bans. I get to tell true, real, raw, you know, often hidden Black history stories to 12 year olds, and 13 and 14 year olds. These are young people who are really, you know, beginning to understand the world for themselves and learning history in school. And so I always get the comment, like, “Why didn’t I learn this in class today?” Like, “Why aren’t they teaching us these things in school?”

Latasha Morrison  

Right, right.

Garrison Hayes  

And I think that’s a real privilege as well, and also a real burden and responsibility that I am just really happy to be a part of the group of people sharing that kind of history. So of course, I get the appreciation for storytelling from my grandmother. But you know, I was a pastor for about three and a half years or so. I’ve been a minister for the better part of a decade. I pastored a church for about, for just under four years. And the Word of God is full of stories. I mean that’s what it is. It’s a story book; it’s a book of stories. When Jesus was here, you know I don’t know how religious this podcast is, so I don’t want to get…

Latasha Morrison  

Oh we faith based. So go ahead. Come with it. (laughter)

Garrison Hayes  

Okay. We’re in the Word then. All right. So when Jesus wanted to break down these really complex ideas around salvation and the way we treat each other and equity and disrupting the status quo, he used story. He said, “It’s like, it’s like a man who went out to sow some seeds.” He said, “It’s like a rich man and a poor man, is like a ungrateful worker.” So he used the power of story to help us to understand these really complex ideas. And I started making content from that place. I started my, I started creating on Tik Tok in January of 2021. So this is about six months after the height of our, you know, racial reckoning as a country. And what really motivated me was this idea that, you know, honestly, I think we were having some really important conversations – for many people for the very first time – which I think was great. But what I found was that many of those conversations were bereft; they were they were missing the historical context. And you need that historical context in order to understand where we are today. You can’t understand George Floyd without understanding segregation.

Latasha Morrison  

Exactly.

Garrison Hayes  

And you can’t understand segregation without understanding redlining. And you can’t understand redlining without understanding… And we can keep going back further and further and further back to understand the context that really brings us to today. And I think it has some really important kind of benefits. One of those benefits is that if we understand that context, we can, yes, of course, better understand where we are now. But we can also build a better future. And that’s my whole thing, and that’s why I do what I do and make the content that I make.

Latasha Morrison  

Yeah, yeah. Because then I think people don’t even understand, like, when we start talking about, like, you know, what the Dred Scott decision did, and all these different things that we don’t learn in school. And this is the thing, I didn’t learn to me there. And I’m a part of Generation X. We’re small, but mighty. We were the bridge. You know? Don’t get me started on Gen X, because I can go on and on. (laughter) You are here because of us! (laughter) Nah.

Garrison Hayes  

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Latasha Morrison  

But listen, you know, it’s really important. And I think that’s one of the things that I have learned as a, what you would say, I guess, I don’t even call myself an activist or educator, but as a teacher, as someone doing this work of racial literacy. One of the things that I’ve seen is when you go and people understand, they know what’s broken, but they don’t understand how we got here. And they don’t understand completely the brokenness. You know? And so when you can give people context of, “Okay, this is how we got here. This is why our communities are racially segregated. This is why churches are racially segregated.” There are people in our country that don’t realize that churches are very segregated, because people of color were not allowed to worship in white churches. I mean, there are people who come here even from other countries that…I had some friends from El Salvador and Guatemala and they saw Selma. And they were like, “That happened in America?” You know? And so they have no context. But when we give people truth, we understand that the truth sets us free. It makes us free. It allows us to understand. And I think that is the fear of what’s happening. Because if you can keep people ignorant, if you think through any oppressive nations or totalitarian, authoritarian governments around the world, the first thing they do is attack truth and information. And so, with that, I think, you know, when we say the, I call it a racial reck. I don’t even say reckoning, you know, completely. Because, like, you know, we got six months into it and then they started coming up with the boogeyman and all the things. But there were, hearts were being transformed; hearts are still being transformed. But there was a fear. Because unlike what we saw in the 60s and the 70s, most of the marches and the reckoning and the revivals that we saw involved people of color. This time you had young white people, older white people, white churches, Asian churches, everybody was a part of this. You had people protesting in Norway. And I’m like, “You know, who in Norway?” (laughter)

Garrison Hayes  

What they got going on? (laughter)

Latasha Morrison  

But I’m just saying this was something that went from America to global. And so, I think that is a fear, a fear of losing power. So I am, I’m excited. This is our Juneteeth. We always do an annual Juneteenth podcast. And we like to bring people on like yourself that can give us some historical context of Juneteenth. Now, Juneteenth, we do understand that in June, I think, June 17, 2021, President Biden made it a federal holiday. I know a lot of us was like, “Okay. Thank you. But, you know, did you ask us?”

Garrison Hayes  

Right, right.

Latasha Morrison  

“Did you ask us what we wanted? This isn’t really what we wanted. But okay.” So I really feel like we have to take advantage. How can we better utilize this day, not just as a day off, but a way to storytell. So for those who are listening…because growing up on the east coast of North Carolina, I had really never heard about or understood what Juneteenth was until I moved to Texas. It’s very big in Texas. There’s parades and all the things that you see in Texas. But there’s a disconnect from the rest of the world as it relates to Juneteenth. So a lot of people got this federal holiday and was like, “What now? What?” But I think we know more about it now. From 2020, most people are learning more about it. But I want you to give us a brief synopsis for those who are listening that don’t really understand what Juneteenth is and the importance of it.

Garrison Hayes  

Sure. So I think the easiest way, the clearest and simplest explanation of Juneteenth is that it’s the day that celebrates the official end of slavery as we knew it at the time on June 19, 1865. It’s the day when Major General Gordon Granger arrived in a place called Galveston, Texas to share that the Confederate soldiers had surrendered, that the war was over, and all enslaved people were free. That’s the top line sentence of Juneteenth. Right? If we were to dig into a little bit more of the context, we’d understand that there’s actually a, there’s a lot more to this story. There’s so, it’s not a simple, easy thing. We celebrate Juneteenth today, because it was the last place that received that news that we knew of at the time. But now we have the privilege of looking back and the oral histories that you’ve mentioned, research that we found that where we learned that some people did not learn that they were free from enslavement in rural pockets throughout the south, they didn’t learn for decades. Can you imagine? Decades after emancipation, the wars been over, Black people are supposed to be free. But some slave owners, some communities were tight lipped about your freedom and kept you in bondage for decades later. Okay, that’s a different story for a different day. We might need to actually talk about that.

Latasha Morrison  

But that’s a real thing.

Garrison Hayes  

It’s real. It’s an important thing.

Latasha Morrison  

Up into the 1900s for some places.

Garrison Hayes  

That’s exactly right. It’s very, very important that we call that out when we talk about Juneteenth. But the day is a day of celebration, that you know as far as the people knew at the time. You know, they did not know that there were these pockets, these places where folks were still being held in bondage, being sold a lie. And so it’s a day of profound solidarity and celebration for emancipation. And the reason why I say solidarity is because there are a number of emancipation dates. In Virginia, it’s April 3rd is the day when enslaved people there were set free, were emancipated. In Florida, it’s May 20th. In Georgia, it’s May 29th. But we celebrate Juneteenth because that day commemorates the last day. It’s the day when the last group of people. And there’s some practical kind of things happening here. Right? Like, you know, Robert E. Lee and Confederates surrendered in the north at Appomattox in Virginia. Right? And that news, we didn’t have email and text message. So that news had to trickle down through the south to get really really far down to like one of the furthest south points in Texas, which is the island of Galveston. So that’s Juneteenth. It’s a, I think the proper word is portmanteau; it’s the bringing together of the words June and 19th. And that’s the explanation.

Latasha Morrison  

Yeah. So Robert E. Lee, you know, he surrendered in Virginia after they lost.

Garrison Hayes  

That’s correct. They lost.

Latasha Morrison  

After they lost.

Garrison Hayes  

They lost. Yeah, they lost. And the interesting thing is like everyone knew they lost. If we can give a little bit more context. The reason why Abraham Lincoln was assassinated was because folks had started surrendering. The Confederates, those who were Confederate, you know, members of the Confederate Army or the Confederate States or at least sympathizers, they saw the writing on the wall. It was over! They’d been defeated. The country was moving on and coming back. The Union was going to be reunited. And so it’s only decades after the war was over, when there is a real understanding that the Confederate States of America lost the war, that we see the daughters of the Confederacy pop up with what we would identify as a revisionist history, changing that history in order to honor their fathers and their uncles and their brothers who had fought in the war. They wanted to kind of redeem them. And so there’s this narrative of the Lost Cause that pops up, which I think is actually very relevant to Juneteenth. You know, in the years after the emancipation of Black people in this country, there’s this thing that happened called the scatter. And the scatter is the time when formerly enslaved Black people all over the country started just going everywhere to find their loved ones.

Latasha Morrison  

Right.

Garrison Hayes  

“I heard that my sister was sold off in Georgia, but I’m in Texas.” And, “I heard that my best friend in the world was in Tennessee, but I was in Alabama.” So they’re going to find the people that they loved.

Latasha Morrison  

Their loved ones. Yeah.

Garrison Hayes  

And I love this detail, because I think often when we talk about slavery in this country, we don’t do enough work to humanize the people who had been enslaved. These were folks with deep abiding relationships, just like you and me. Who didn’t get along with some folks, loved some folks, had family members, had friends. Right? We got to really do the work of humanizing the enslaved, the formerly enslaved people. And so, you know, it’s very important to know that this scatter happens.

Latasha Morrison  

Yes.

Garrison Hayes  

And in the years after emancipation, Black people in America saw a profound amount of success during what a period called Reconstruction. And during that period, Juneteenth celebrations were all the rage. They were like, “Hey, we are really out here enjoying ourselves, celebrating, eating red foods and watermelon and strawberries, and having a phenomenal time.” There were recitations of the Emancipation Proclamation. There were parades and rodeos and baseball games and songs and joy and freedom. It was a beautiful, beautiful time, precisely because the Union army was occupying the south and ensuring the protection, to a certain degree, of Black people’s rights to gather, to celebrate, right to vote. And so we see Black people elected to Congress and Black governor and lieutenant governors. And we see all kinds of incredible progress in the years, in the decade immediately following emancipation. But you know, this group, the daughters of the Confederacy, and others who are kind of a part of that legacy, began to advocate for the removal of the Union army. And that’s when we see black codes reinstated, which limited the freedoms and the movement and the gathering ability of Black people, laws that made it essentially illegal to be Black. And those laws completely stymied the progress and the celebration of Juneteenth. We saw Juneteenth as a celebration began to kind of die out for a time and become much more of a private celebration that you would see maybe in church and in Black communities like Greenwood and Tulsa, Oklahoma, or in small Black enclaves in Texas and across the south. But you didn’t see the large parades that we saw in the years immediately following emancipation. And that’s another really, really important part of this holiday.

Latasha Morrison  

Yeah, it was like it was silenced. And it was replaced with racial terror, you know, in the South after the Hayes Compromise. And so it just shows you guys like, elections are so important. Because they impact people. And when you don’t humanize a group of people, you get some of these results. And so, with 10 years of you know, when you’re given, when you exercise your agency, when you are celebrating like you are given your God given dignity in a sense, but it’s having to be forced. So yeah, we know like to change culture, something that had gone on for centuries, you’re not going to change that in 10 years time. And so I remember one of my friends when I was living in Texas…you know, Texas has this revisionist history. And I had never experienced anything like it. I mean, North Carolina is bad already. I grew up in North Carolina. But just going to Texas it’s like they have this way of telling history. And they’ll tell you like it’s fact. And I’m just like, “Have you read the secession documents? You were treasonous.” Like, you know, (laughter) like, you know.

Garrison Hayes  

Period. (laughter)

Latasha Morrison  

Yeah, it’s like there’s facts. like, if you just read the secession documents, it tells you what the war was about. All of that. But I just remember going to the Capitol in Austin, and, you know, looking at some of the – I love history, so I was just looking at the grounds and some of the pictures. And you can see about, I think it was about seven, like Black men who were elected during that time of Reconstruction. Because there were numbers in the South to do that. When people were allowed to vote, they voted. And so you see this, and so she kind of told the story, “Like you see, there’s been, it wasn’t that bad. Look they were elected.” (laughter)

Garrison Hayes  

Why?

Latasha Morrison  

Do you understand why they were elected? And then why that shifted from after 1875, you don’t see any more, for decades later you don’t see anymore. And very few even now. You know, there’s a reason for that. But it’s just so funny, when we tell history to give that context is so important. I wanted to talk..you have this video. It talks about urban renewal. And I think this is also important to the conversation, when we start talking about Juneteenth. Because like, I had this, I love the holiday, but I don’t want it to become removed from the meaning. Just like we have MLK Day, this is a day of volunteering. This is a day of education. But you know, it just becomes another day off. Just like a lot of other holidays, you know, that we have in America. But how do, you know, there’s a way we, I think a way that we can honor these days is to, like, do things like special podcasts, videos, where people are getting educated, but also giving people a directive. So we’re gonna give some people some directives at the end on what they can do around Juneteenth to make sure that this holiday doesn’t become watered down. That this holiday can become a day where the next generation can choose to do better and be better. You know? And so you have this video, and you were talking about urban renewal. And you specifically talk about, I think, Atlanta, I think you mentioned Nashville. And you can tell them what urban renewal is. Because this is something that was happening in the 60s, a little history about that. Because a lot of people don’t understand like, how geographical racism impacts the community and how we’re living through that now. And even with gentrification, all the things they’re having to do to create livable space or better space in some of these areas. I think about the east side of Austin, the infrastructure was horrible. But there was a reason why the infrastructure was bad. Although those same people were paying taxes. So if you can just tell our audience a little bit about urban renewal, and then we’re gonna actually make sure we put that video in the show notes so that people can listen to it. Because I really think it’s a great video that really pulls you in. And I love things where we can take complex issues and make them understandable, but not in a five hour long dissertation. (laughter)

Garrison Hayes  

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Latasha Morrison  

So could you tell the audience a little bit about urban renewal and a little bit about the video?

Garrison Hayes  

Yeah, so urban renewal, you know, I appreciate you know, definitely go check out the video. I’ll be much more succinct and to the point in the video then I will here. But I’ll do my best.

Latasha Morrison  

I know, I sprung this on him y’all. He didn’t know. (laughter)

Garrison Hayes  

No, no, no, no. We’re good. We’re good. We’re good. Urban Renewal was this period in American history that really serves as what I would call kind of the precursor or the original gentrification. We have a lot of great conversations about gentrification today. And the ways in which it’s changing, you know, neighborhoods are changing when kind of people from higher income, you know, groups increment, and you know, tax brackets come in and they kind of change the character and the look and the feel and displace the people. Well, that has some really interesting origins. That process has really interesting origins in something called urban renewal, which was this period of time in the 50s and 60s where the federal government gave billions of dollars to cities for the purpose of displacing Black and Latino people. That is, I mean, you know, it really can’t be said any clearer than that. The federal government was actively involved in giving billions of dollars to cities for them to displace Black and Brown folks. And what that looked like, often, was running a highway through demolishing or running a highway through Black communities. In order to really understand how effective this would have been in displacing the Black community, I highlight a couple of like really specific examples. So I live in Nashville, Tennessee, and there was this pocket in North Nashville that was the Black kind of center. You know, everyone knows Nashville as Music City. Well, you know, if you’ve spent really any time in Nashville, you’ll know, that it’s not just country music here. There’s a lot of music in Nashville, jazz and blues and country, but also hip hop and r&b. There’s so many phenomenal recording studios and engineers here, that everyone comes to Nashville to record. And they’ll stay and they’ll live here. And it’s really a beautiful place because of that. That history isn’t just recent history. It’s been that way. People like Little Richard got their start here, Duke Ellington, who was really instrumental in the Harlem Renaissance, and BB King and others, and really, Jimi Hendrix. Many of them really saw Nashville as a launching pad for their careers. And often that place where they were, kind of that the enclave in which they lived and worked and played and performed, was in North Nashville. And in the 1950s and 60s, the North Nashville community was destroyed. Before its destruction this was a thriving upper class Black community, where we saw so much mobility for Black people that one of the first Black owned banks was founded in this community. Fisk University, where Representative John Lewis went to university, is in this community. Meharry Medical College, which graduates a ton of Black doctors, it’s in this community. This was a thriving community. And then, urban renewal comes around and they run a highway, straight through it, disrupting this community in a way that it’s never recovered from. To the point where in 2018, North Nashville was awarded the distinction – I hate to say it that way, I’m being a bit tongue in cheek – but it had the distinction of being the most incarcerated zip code in the United States of America. If you lived in North Nashville, you were significantly more likely to have spent some time in your adult life in prison. And this is like night and day different from what North Nashville used to be. And this isn’t just a Nashville story. The same can be said in Atlanta, a community called Sweet Auburn. If you’ve ever gone over to where MLK grew up, you’ll have to get off of like this nearly spaghetti junction like kind of exit on ramp thing. Well, all of that was a part of a thriving community at one time known as Sweet Auburn. You can say the same thing in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Many of us know about the Greenwood district and the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. Well, their goal was to burn down this thriving Black community in 1921, in order to put a railroad through it. They failed. The Black community fought back and were able, they were able to win some incredible, you know, legal…you know, they were able to take legal action and win to become what’s known as Black Wall Street. But that was the 1920s. In the 1950s and 60s, urban renewal comes around and they destroy that community and run a highway through it. This is a really important part of American history that I don’t think we talk about enough, because many of the poor outcomes that we see in Black communities in our cities, if there’s a Black population in your city, it is likely that they live and exist in a poorer condition than their white counterparts. That their communities aren’t as well resourced as their white neighbors’ communities are, and this is a direct result of policy and action that communities and this country has taken to actively disenfranchise these people. And it kind of for me, Latasha, it really kind of like, makes you wonder why? Like, man, like, do y’all, you know, do they just hate Black people? Why? What is it? What’s going on here? It kind of raises those questions. And where I land is like, you know, political expediency and selfishness are powerful, powerful, powerful things. “If you can get a little bit something from me and I can get you to reelect me and we can make more money.” These are powerful forces that lead to some terrible outcomes. And so that’s just one example of the ways in which this country has done a terrible harm. This wasn’t slavery times, y’all. You don’t have to go back that far to find these really terrible things.

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Latasha Morrison  

You know, my parents were born in ’53 and ’52. And so they were alive, they were a part of this. You know, my parents went to segregated schools. And so this was a part of this. So this is not ancient history. This is current history. Because we are dealing with the ramifications of that now in our communities when, you know, when we look at underserved communities. And that’s why it’s important when we say politics are about people. And I feel like, you know, a lot of these issues of injustice, really, especially racial injustice, should be bipartisan issues. And they’re not. You know? And so, indifference is a powerful thing. And it fuels hate. And so when we look, when you break something…I always give this example when I talk…none of this is our fault. You know? We didn’t do it, but we also benefit from it in some ways. And so we didn’t break it, but it is our responsibilities as believers to be a part of the solution. And so that’s important for us. Because you don’t get an out because, you know, you’re saying, “Well, I didn’t own slaves, and you weren’t a slave.” That’s, no. That’s not how scripture works. You know what I’m saying? We’re supposed to care about the other. And so if one part of the body is suffering, all the parts suffer with it; if one part of the body is rejoicing, all the parts rejoice with it. So we are connected in this. We are a part of the body. And I think it’s, you know, there’s a different standard as it relates for Christians that we have to uphold. And so I think that context is really important, because I’m pretty sure there’s people that’s listening right now that live in Nashville, and that visit North Nashville. And they probably put the blame on the people that are there, not understanding all the generational trauma, all the generational wealth that was not that could have been. And we’re not even going to talk about businesses that we’re burned, banks. You know, we can go into the Freedmen’s Bureau, like all the things that were corrupted and money stolen and all of this time and time again. But still, in the midst of that you manage to survive, you manage in some ways to thrive. And then we have this new, what we would call a pushing out through some forms of gentrification. You know? And so we have to understand this and make sure that we’re not being a part of the problem. But we can do these things with justice in mind. So it’s nothing wrong with the area improving and getting the resources and the infrastructure that it needs. But we have to make sure that we’re doing it in a way where justice is prevailing. That where we’re looking out for the others. And I think that’s just really key as we hear the stories. So when we talk about Juneteenth, what are some things that people can do to keep the spirit of Juneteenth alive? I mean, like, there’s things I’m still learning, like about all the red foods and all that stuff. Like, red velvet cake and all these things, and we can talk a little bit about that. But what are some things that you feel that in really a way to honor the lives that didn’t get to see justice prevail, you know, lives that are not, communities that are not seeing justice prevail? What are some things that we can do as a community to not water down Juneteenth?

Garrison Hayes  

Yeah, I think it’s a very, very important question that I think we’re all on the journey to kind of learning and figuring that out together. And so I want to encourage us to go on that journey and to be on that journey. What I think is really, really important is that we recognize that Juneteenth has always been about solidarity. The reason why I shared that history of other emancipation days is, you know, we could have as a Black community selected any number of days. “Let’s pick the Georgia day, you know, May 29. Right? That’s fine. There’s a lot of us in Georgia, so it’s fine. Let’s do that one. Right?” But the reason why we celebrate Juneteenth is because it’s understood as the last day. Right? It’s the one where the last group of people learned this very, very important news. I think that’s important, because it’s really an invitation. Juneteenth is an annual invitation for us to think about those who are still looking for freedom. Who are still waiting for emancipation, and to stand in solidarity with those groups. To say I’m not going to be able to celebrate until everybody’s free. None of us are truly free until all of us are truly free.

Latasha Morrison  

Right.

Garrison Hayes  

And I think there are so many organizations, you know, I won’t name any, but I think there’s so many organizations that are actively seeking to set people free. Okay, I’ll name one. I think about the Reform Alliance that’s working with people who were formerly incarcerated. This is a group of people who have served their time, you know, and then they come out, and it’s so hard to reintegrate into society.

Latasha Morrison  

They still can’t vote, like after they served their time.

Garrison Hayes  

Precisely.

Latasha Morrison  

And they still can’t vote. Like if you’ve paid your debt, why? I mean, why are we using that as an…think about this you guys. Especially this is impacting Black and Brown people. And I want to state this, ou know, when you’ve served your time, you paid your debt in society, then all of those things…it’s going to be hard enough to get a job, to get a home, and all the things; and then you’re still left out a society where you can’t vote. And most of those states that this is happening in are formerly slave holding states, slave holdings states that are doing this. And this is just another form of slavery in another name. Because we understand that the vote is very important. And so, that’s just something that you have to look at why this is happening. If someone 20, I know someone that has, they served time. They were in college, got hooked up with someone and that, and because something was in their name, they had to serve three years. They served three years. Now this is as a 19,20 year old. They are almost, they’re in their 40s now. Have a job, went back to school, then, I mean upstanding taxpaying citizen, bought a house – and still cannot vote. You know? And so you have to think about that. You have to think about like, why? Why is that the case? And so those are just things to think about. So I just really think, you know, we have to…hold on one second. There was some background noise? I don’t know.

Garrison Hayes  

Okay.

Latasha Morrison  

Okay, Alexa is talking. (laughter)

Garrison Hayes  

Of course she is.

Latasha Morrison  

Yeah. So that’s important for us to have that context of this in this conversation, is to make sure that we’re not continuously oppressing people with unjust laws and who this is impacting.

Garrison Hayes  

That’s exactly it. And, you know, I think our criminal justice system or what some people call the legal system, the criminal legal system. It represents the only truly unbroken chain of oppression from slavery time to present. You know, there have been programs that have stopped and started. There have been ways in which Black people have advanced and then been set back. But the unbroken chain that has gone from enslavement to present day is represented by our carceral system. And so, I personally am, I’m a real advocate for, for especially people who have been, or who are trying to reenter into society and change their lives and do what’s better, but are just running into so many roadblocks. Then, of course, not being able to vote means representation, you know, or I’m sorry, taxation without representation, which our forefathers, the founding fathers of this country called what? Tyranny. They said, “Taxation without representation is tyranny.” And so, you know, there are laws that are not just unjust, they are tyrannical laws. And so I think it’s important to frame it in that context. I think the other thing that we can do and think about for Juneteenth centers on celebration and the way we celebrate. I think it’s important that we center Blackness in our celebration for Juneteenth. Because that’s truly what it’s about. And whether you are a Black person like me or a non Black person, I would encourage you to find a local celebration on Juneteenth and go. And go as a person who is listening. Go as a person who’s willing to receive and to engage as a learner and be in the space without necessarily taking up the air in the room. Can I say that? Can I be honest about that?

Garrison Hayes  

Yes, say it. Yeah.

Garrison Hayes  

Can I be honest…

Latasha Morrison  

Don’t take over! (laughter)

Garrison Hayes  

…sometimes our brothers and sisters come into the space and they kind of center themselves and take over. But Juneteenth is a celebration of Black joy and Black resilience. And I think it’s appropriate for white people and other non Black people to celebrate with us without centering themselves. And I think that’s a really important part of how we can continue to honor the legacy of those who did not get an opportunity to see Juneteenth – the first one or celebrate with us today.

Latasha Morrison  

Yeah, and I think that context is really important. The takeover. So this is not a time, you know, one of the things that happens is, we see brands that try to take advantage of. You know, because there’s a lot of buying power in the Black community. And so what I would encourage those of us that’s in the Black and Brown community, because I think this is a holiday for everyone to celebrate, we want to invite others in. It’s not just something that Black people do. We want to celebrate in solidarity. But also, I think, like you said, celebrating Blackness where, I think for the month of June, this is a Be the Bridge challenge. You know, use some of your purchasing power to buy from Black owned businesses and support Black owned businesses, lift up Black owned businesses. And so, you know, so whether that’s banking, whether that’s a store, whether that’s a brand, whatever that can be for you. And I know, we always, there’s always several lists that are posted. That’s something that you can do. But we don’t want to get into the, I can’t think of the word right now. But like the, like Bath and Bodyworks came up with, like a candle and different things like…what does that have to do? This is the thing, if it’s not supporting anything, like if you’re developing something and the money is not going back into the Black community or to support Black initiatives, then you shouldn’t be doing anything. You shouldn’t be creating a necklace to sell so that you can take advantage of the holiday, unless that money is going straight into the community. And I think that’s just something we have to say. When you’ve been marginalized in a society, we have the right to say that. And when wealth has been taken from your society, there have been systems that have been created to oppress you and to hold you back, we don’t want to create a holiday where this is continuously happening. So what I would challenge Be the Bridge listeners to do is support Black businesses during this time, Black creatives, hire Black creatives, hire Black speakers. These are things that you can do for this month of June. Well, I think it should be all the time, this is how we should think. But at least specifically for this month. And I think that’s something, diversify your portfolio as it relates to the things that you’re investing in and that you’re giving time to. One of the questions I always ask people, Garrison. This work is very complex, and I know, you deal with grief, you’re dealing with race, faith, there’s a lot of things that you talk about. There’s also I know another documentary that you were promoting that was on, I want to say it was on Hulu, I can’t remember. But it was called Lowndes County.

Garrison Hayes  

Oh, yeah. Paramount Plus.

Latasha Morrison  

Yeah. It was on which station?

Garrison Hayes  

Paramount Plus.

Latasha Morrison  

Yeah. And I actually watched the Lowndes County.

Garrison Hayes  

Oh cool.

Latasha Morrison  

And just, it was just intriguing, because this is information that I had no idea the context of where this came from. And, you know, this was happening in the late 60s. So they were still trying to get the vote and this is in Alabama. So people were still, now the Voting Rights Act had already passed. Okay? But the oppressive, these rural counties still had control. And there’s no federal government making them do otherwise. And so people were still going into these rural areas to get people registered to vote, because people just weren’t registered to vote. That is why it’s so important to register and vote. And if anyone is telling you your vote don’t matter, they are lying. Okay? They are lying. And so that, you know, so just even that whole story, how this was happening in the late 60s up into the 70s. You know. And this is the preamble, I think, into the Black Panther movement that happened. So that’s just an incredible thing to listen to. But one of the things you know, when we think about this, it’s so complex, it’s so heavy, sometimes it feels hopeless. You know? But we like to give hope in this work. And there’s a lot to lament, there’s so much to lament. I know, some people are listening now and they’re like, “Good gracious some people still weren’t able to vote into the 70s in some places?” There’s so much to lament. What are some things right now that you are personally lamenting?

Garrison Hayes  

Hmm, that’s a really, really great question. Um, you know, personally, you know, I lost my dad to COVID in September of 2021. And it has been the hardest thing that I’ve ever had to navigate. Part of the reason why I am passionate – ‘m going to reach and grab this picture – part of the reason, part of the reason why I’m passionate about formerly incarcerated people is because my dad, this is him. He’s name’s Larry. Larry Hayes. I’m showing Latasha on the video, if you’re only listening on audio here. But he was a volunteer, he did what was called Prison Ministry. He would go up to the, my whole life, my whole entire life. I can’t remember a time when this man wasn’t taking us up to the Atlanta Detention Center, and we’d have to sit in the car – that’s probably illegal, I don’t even know – but we’d have to like sit in the car while he would go in and minister. And we didn’t mind, we were kids. We loved being, you know, it’s me and my little brother, we’d just be in there laughing and enjoying ourselves. But my entire life. And, you know, many of these gentlemen were, you know, using their phone call allowances to call around to people outside to figure out, “Where’s Mr. Hayes? Where’s elder Hayes?” after he passed. And so I’m, you know, I’m passionate about this stuff because of him. And I’ve learned so much because of him. And I love him very much. And I’m still missing my dad. And so I lament that. I’m lamenting the proliferation of guns in our country and the way that has turned living and doing everyday things into a profound threat. And to walk around and just see guns everywhere is so traumatizing. It is not the world that, this is not normal and it doesn’t have to be this way. And yet, from children, my little nieces and nephews, to friends and, everyone’s just afraid that they might die from gun violence. And it feels as though nothing is ever going to be done about it. That feel, that is extremely exhausting. And I am full of lament over that. Those are the two things that come to my mind. I’m curious, what are you lamenting right now personally?

Latasha Morrison  

You know, don’t know if you know this about me, but I lost my father in 2021.

Garrison Hayes  

I did not know that.

Latasha Morrison  

To COVID also. Yeah, January 2021. So my father, Gene Morrison, who was 68. You know, no preexisting conditions, you know, he passed from COVID.

Garrison Hayes  

I did not know that. I’m so sorry.

Latasha Morrison  

So yeah, you know, hearing your story. I was just even with someone last week, who had just lost their dad. And I think there’s this like, the one thing with COVID there’s like this community, collective community of grief in that sense of, you know, the world has moved on, but there’s so many of us that’s still picking up the pieces. And, you know, and I’m really thinking of a way, Garrison, how those lives that were lost can continuously be honored. Because there was so much political mess around…well, let me just say partisan mess that was around just COVID that it almost overshadowed the lives. One of the things that I remember, I think it was after Biden was elected they put, they did this memorial on, I never got a chance to go see it. But at the monument, they did these monuments of flags representing the lives and I think they do like a lighting ceremony like each day. But it’s like, it’s one of those things that, you know, we want to remember these lives. I mean, because there were almost, in America, almost a million lives. And then collectively around the world more than that of people who were lost to COVID. We have kind of just moved on, but there are still families that are grieving. There are children that lost both parents. You know? And so, so yeah, that is something, some of the same things that you’re lamenting is probably up on the top of my list, including gun violence. Because like this is very triggering. Like even fourth of July, I don’t like to hear the lighting of fireworks now. I don’t like to go. I used to love looking at fireworks. But I don’t want to hear the sound, because it’s real triggering. And now, you know, even as I was walking my dog yesterday, I’m always thinking, and this is my mind. And this is just me. But I’m always thinking about if something happens, where do I run. Where’s the exit door? When I go to a place, where it’s the exit door? Because that is the life that we live here in America. I’m headed to Spain for my birthday in a few weeks. And I was like, when I went to Korea for my birthday, not my birthday with a friend in the fall, there was just although I am like dark chocolate tall walking around Korea with braids, I stood out like a sore thumb in a sense, but I felt safe. You know? And there was this feeling of it’s weird because no one else is like you, but there’s this security or safety that I felt there. And, you know, even going to Spain, they’re talking about pickpocketers and such. I said, “I can deal with a pickpocket!” (laughter) Like, I don’t want to have to deal with AK 47, you know what I’m saying, assault rifle. And so, I can survive a pickpocketer. And so it’s like, I’m almost like looking forward to going and just getting some respite from the trauma of fear in a sense. You know? And that’s something that you know, and I’m thinking me, almost 50, this is something that I’m having to think about. I can imagine how our kids are feeling when they, I don’t have to go into a school every day. You know what I’m saying? I’m not on a college campus every day. So I can imagine the trauma that they are having to live over and over. And trauma lives in our body. Like, there’s impact of that. There’s generational trauma. And we don’t know what this is going to look like in 20 years with this generation that’s having to come up like this. And we’re not doing anything to prepare them or to deal with the trauma now. We’re actually cutting services for mental health. So I think those are some of the same things. 

Garrison Hayes  

You know, I have a couple things to say. The first thing is, I’m gonna stay on topic for the first thing. You know, we are incredibly adaptive beings. We are able to truly adapt to our environment, which in some regards, is great. And in others it’s what makes progress so slow. Sometimes we just get used to the way that things are and we aren’t willing to change it. But I look at a lot of young people. I get to work with a ton of people in Gen Z and an even Gen Alpha. And I’m looking at them and I can’t help but notice that there is sometimes a more flat affect. There is almost a kind of like, what I interpret to be a bit of like this kind of like disassociation at times with just some of the people that I’ve engaged with. I think they are incredibly smart, socially conscious, but sometimes there’s a flatness that I can only attribute to that adaptation that they’re having to do growing up in a world where it’s just normal to run, hide, fight. Like they learn these things. Because the threat of a school shooting is ever present everywhere, everywhere in this country. And I just, I hope that we are being just conscientious of the world that we’re creating for the children that are growing. It just concerns me. I’m profoundly concerned about that.

Latasha Morrison  

Yeah.

Garrison Hayes  

Okay. Can I say the second thing though?

Latasha Morrison  

Yeah.

Garrison Hayes  

I hope these people look you up. I know, they listen to you. (laughter) But don’t they know what you look like. You said almost 50?! No way. No way.

Latasha Morrison  

(laughter) I will be 50. Yes.

Garrison Hayes  

No. Why would you get on here and just tell the untruth? That’s crazy!

Latasha Morrison  

You know, Black don’t crack.

Garrison Hayes  

It don’t crack!

Latasha Morrison  

Brown don’t frown. Beige don’t fade. (laughter)

Garrison Hayes  

Ha Ha! Let me tell you, the Lord is blessing. The Lord is, he’s a shield and a protector with all that Black folks been through. Oh, my goodness.

Latasha Morrison  

(laughter) Yup, I tell you. I tell you.

Garrison Hayes  

Congratulations, congratulations. That’s a blessing.

Latasha Morrison  

I will be 50 June the 23rd. So I just told the whole Be the Bridge community.

Garrison Hayes  

That’s amazing. My birthday’s June 28th.

Latasha Morrison  

That’s also our anniversary of our organization.

Garrison Hayes  

Very cool.

Latasha Morrison  

So that’s the other reason for the Be the Bridge challenge of supporting Black businesses for the month of June. So we’re going to talk more about that. Okay, so Garrison, what’s bringing you hope? And we’re gonna close on this one. What’s bringing you hope?

Garrison Hayes  

Um, I think that there are so many people doing this work and interested in this work. I am amazed every time I post a video online and it gets views. I’m just like, wow, people are really interested in this. And I think, you know, I’m in Nashville. I just saw, I was up at the capitol for when the Tennessee State Capitol when Justin Jones and Justin Pearson were expelled from the legislature. And it was a dark day for Tennessee. And yet, I felt profound hope. Oh, my goodness, I was overjoyed. I tear, it brought tears to my eyes seeing these young brothers stand with such dignity and strength and speak truth to power in a way that it meant everything to me. And afterwards, you know, Justin Pearson, met with his family, his parents are pastors, and they just started praying this prayer of celebration and glorifying God. And I did not know this, but I was, I didn’t realize that I would feel so overwhelmed with just the feeling of, I felt, you know, I can’t even, it’s hard to even put it into words what I felt. Just this sense that, no, there are still people committed to this work. And there are still folks willing to stand for what’s right, though the heavens may fall, no matter the consequences. And then seeing all of the folks, and let me tell you, it was majority not Black folks. Let me tell you it was majority white people at the capitol.

Latasha Morrison  

Showing up! I love it.

Garrison Hayes  

Showing up! Not only showing up for the Justins and standing in solidarity with them, but showing up for the children who were murdered at Covenant School here in Nashville and saying, “We want change.” It filled me. It filled my cup, which has been emptying over the years of seeing…I was at the insurrection, on the day of the insurrection, I was there watching it, a witness to it. I’ve seen so many things over the last several years, even to your point, the ways in which COVID has been politicized and even having people in my own community refuse to get vaccinated because of misinformation. There’s so many things that just like was really draining my cup, but to see people stand for what’s right in a state that most people have kind of just written off as, you know, not going to do what’s right. To see people standing for what’s right was so encouraging and filled me with so much hope.

Latasha Morrison  

Yeah, and I think hope is really important to the longevity of this work. People have to see. Because sometimes the loudest voices are not the majority voices. And so some of the things, the pushback that you’re seeing now, everybody doesn’t feel that way. You know? And there is a community, a thriving Be the Bridge community, we’re just one part. There’s so many great people out there doing amazing work that we lock arms with. But people are leaning into this; people want to know truth. And I’ll I’ll just never forget this 80 something year old woman that came up to me in Gainesville, Florida. And I think it was Friend, it was called Friends Church, something about friends church, I forget. But I wrote about them in my first book, but I done forgot the name of the church. But anyway, they’re still down there doing work. But she came up to me and she grabbed my hand. And we had just done a training, a two day training. And she grabbed my hand, and I didn’t know what she was gonna do. I was, “Uh oh, she gonna hit me.” (laughter) But she just said, “Thank you!” And she was just thanking me for sharing and giving historical context. Because we live in homogenous bubbles. And because it was on purpose, there was a strategy behind people not knowing truth. Just like the things that we see now. There is a strategy behind you not knowing truth. And she was just grateful. And if an 80 year old woman, she was 80 something year old woman, can feel grateful for knowing truth, what more can we do? Like, it’s never too late to to change, to change your mind, to transformation. God is at work. God is at work. And God was at work then, God is at work now. God is in control, even when it feels like it’s uncontrollable.

Garrison Hayes  

Oh yeah.

Latasha Morrison  

And so those are the things that I have to remind myself of in this work. And those are the reasons why I continue to do this work. Because I always tell people like, “Look, I love Target. I can go work at Target.” I ain’t have to deal with this. (laughter)

Garrison Hayes  

Right.

Latasha Morrison  

But at the end of the day, this is the work that I’ve been called to. And, so I am hopeful for people like you that are using your media talents. You know, I was gonna just really try to date myself by saying, “With the tic tac.” (laughter) My aunt used to call Facebook, My Book or something like that. (laughter)

Garrison Hayes  

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. (laughter)

Latasha Morrison  

But just how we’re using our collective talents and abilities to lead people toward this greater truth of flourishing for all God’s people. You know? And that’s the liberty and justice for all. May it be on earth just as it is in heaven. Those are just a reminder. So I’m grateful for you, Garrison. It was great talking to you. This is not gonna be the last time.

Garrison Hayes  

Good!

Latasha Morrison  

I’m always in Nashville. So we need to get together and do something. I can’t wait to meet your wife, and just all the things excited about what’s happening. I would love to hear more about the stuff that you’re doing with Reform. So thank you.

Garrison Hayes  

Thank you so much. It’s been great to talk to you. And I can’t wait. I’m gonna hold you to this. If I see you in Nashville, I’m like swiping up on the story like, “What’s going on here? What’s happening?” (laughter) Thank you so much.

Latasha Morrison  

Okay! (laughter) Thank you so much for joining us on the Be the Bridge Podcast.

Narrator  

Thanks for listening to the Be the Bridge Podcast. To find out more about the Be the Bridge organization and or to become a bridge builder in your community, go to BeTheBridge.com. Again, that’s BeTheBridge.com. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, remember to rate and review it on this platform, and share it with as many people as you possibly can. You can also connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Today’s show was edited, recorded, and produced by Travon Potts at Integrated Entertainment Studios in Metro Atlanta, Georgia. The host and executive producer is Latasha Morrison. Lauren C. Brown is the Senior Producer. And transcribed by Sarah Connatser. Please join us next time. This has been a Be the Bridge production.