Ep 277 | Decolonized Restorative & Transformative Justice Work with Dr. Eloise Sepeda

Eloise Sepeda
You know, I started cutting it off and doing the regrowth process. And since then I’m just like, “No, I am not a blonde.”

Latasha Morrison
That part! We need to hold that story! Hold on. We’re gonna come back to that story.

Narrator
You are listening to the Be the Bridge Podcast with Latasha Morrison.

Latasha Morrison
[intro] How are you guys doing today? It’s exciting!

Narrator
Each week, Be the Bridge Podcast tackles subjects related to race and culture with the goal of bringing understanding.

Latasha Morrison
[intro] …but I’m going to do it in the spirit of love.

Narrator
We believe understanding can move us toward racial healing, racial equity, and racial unity. Latasha Morrison is the founder of Be the Bridge, which is an organization responding to racial brokenness and systemic injustice in our world. This podcast is an extension of our vision to make sure people are no longer conditioned by a racialized society but grounded in truth. If you have not hit the subscribe button, please do so now. Without further ado, let’s begin today’s podcast. Oh, and stick around for some important information at the end.

Latasha Morrison
Okay, Be the Bridge community. I have another special treat. Because I always say I have a special treat for you, but today is really a special treat. I’m bringing a new voice, maybe one you’ve heard me mention. But you get to meet today another member of the Be the Bridge community, the starting member. Eloise Sepeda was actually a part of the original Be the Bridge group that started in Austin with 11 other ladies and she is here, and she’s gonna give us an update on all the things that she is doing. So I am so glad to have you here, Eloise. I Have to read your bio, because sometimes you don’t know the greatness that is among you. And so this is a privilege for us to have such an incredible woman, friend here with us today. And we stay in contact. Eloise is still in Austin. I am in Atlanta. But we stay in contact. Even when I come to town in Austin, we may stick out and get some food and all the things. Right?

Eloise Sepeda
My favorite thing.

Latasha Morrison
But, she is a Latina and she has native roots from the Kickapoo nation. And she is a child and adult survivor of family and stranger sexual violence, gangs, substance abuse, and homelessness. Despite these high risks of lethal violence and becoming a teen mom, she is resilient. Since 1999, Eloise has used her personal and professional survival leader experiences to guide her work in advocacy. As a national SME Restorative-Transformative Justice Practitioner, she believes in decolonizing restorative practices and centering the voices of people who are marginalized and disproportionately overrepresented in carceral systems of oppression, modern day colonization of family surveillance, and separation. She uses her expertise in Violence & Abuse, Intersections of Child Welfare & multi-systems to advance racial equity and human-centered engagement, to promote safety, justice, family preservation, healing, and wellbeing for every person impacted and/or who caused harm seeking to make wrongs right.

Latasha Morrison
And Eloise is one of those people who actually mentored me in some of the restorative justice practices. And those of you who are part of our community, if you’re doing a Be the Bridge group, if you participated in a Be the Bridge group, the basis of the group, the foundation of the group is on restorative justice model. And so how we gather, how we sit, you know, in a circle, having a centerpiece set and values, all of those things are some of the principles from the restorative justice model. We don’t follow every detail of that, but that is the base foundation of our Be the Bridge groups. So, Eloise it’s great to have you here. Now. I said a mouthful. I probably, I know it’s so awkward when people are reading your bio. You’re like, “Oh, wait a minute. Okay, you didn’t say that right.” So I want to just give you, I know how that feels. And so if you had an elevator pitch of what you do, what would you say? I just read all of that information. But I want you to introduce yourself like I didn’t read that information, and give us your elevator pitch of what you do. Because I know you do so many wonderful things. And I know you’re dealing with the hard things, just like we deal with a lot of the hard things of life within Be the Bridge. I know you’re dealing with the same thing in the marginalized communities that you’re working with. So give us a little update. Sometimes bios can be out of date. So give us a little update on all things Eloise right now.

Eloise Sepeda
Thank you, Tasha. So I would say in my elevator pitch of introducing myself I would start with I am. I am a mother, a grandmother. I am a friend. I’m a sister. I am a community member. I’m a woman of God. I am a warrior healer. I am Latina, with a lot of spice. And I am Indigenous.

Latasha Morrison
Yes! My tongue doesn’t roll. It doesn’t roll. But we’ll work on it. (laughter)

Eloise Sepeda
You got to do the body shake when you say it. Latina and the head roll. It’s the whole thing. (laughter)

Latasha Morrison
Yes, yes! All those years in Texas, and I still didn’t get it. (laughter)

Eloise Sepeda
It’s okay, we have many more years to work on it. We have many more years. (laughter) I would say I am also a peacemaker. And in our peacemaker work is where my warrior healer self shows up. Because peacemaking involves disruption. And many people think that peacemaking means appeasing and calming and managing situations. And that’s not at all what it means. I am very focused and dedicated to be a voice for the voiceless, to create bridges, which is why I love, love, love and support with all my heart Be the Bridge, because it really stands for what I believe in. And I, I’ve launched a project called the winter project in the past, which is a bridge builder between community members, family members, and systems folks, which continue to perpetuate racism and oppression that continue to harm and affect communities, children, youth, families, in our communities, in all communities. So I, in one sentence, am a disrupter and a peacemaker.

Latasha Morrison
Wow, wow. And I know like you said, you are a mother, you’re grandmother and I know that is some of your driving force. I got to witness you become a grandmother while I was in Texas. And they’re all getting so big now. I think your oldest daughter, I mean, your youngest, your baby girl. Is she like should almost be out of high school. Right?

Eloise Sepeda
She’s a senior! Yes. You’ve seen her grow up.

Latasha Morrison
A senior! Wow. And I remember she was like, not even in middle school, you know, at that time. Wow. Kids grow up so fast. Like, could you explain you know, for those who are listening, and those who have been a part of our Be the Bridge community, you know, a lot of what we’ve done in Be the Bridge is started grassroots. And so, you know, we didn’t have at that time, the training elements that we have now. We didn’t have videos to tell you how to use the guide and all of those things. And so there’s some things in our guide, when you have our guide, the new guide. So if you’re using the old guy, you do not have the right guide. And so you have to register your group in order to get the new guide. So we have a lot of rogue groups out there, people who are using our name, using our content, but not registered their groups and so they’re not being trained by us. And so, yes, so I took the time to say that. (laughter)

Eloise Sepeda
Good!

Latasha Morrison
So, but I want you to explain. Yeah, and there’s something to that, you know, there’s something to that, you know, especially an organization that is Black-led, if you are using our tools and resources, you should be pointing back to the organization. Because there is still some inequity in that if you’re not doing that. So I said that for the people in the back. And I hope that you heard me. Because we want to make sure that we can create, continue to create current curriculum, we are actually building our own, like social media like platform that we’re going to have our groups in. We’re launching our online community, our online academy soon, there’s a lot of great things happening. And if your groups are not registered, you don’t have the correct content. And so when we’re talking about restorative justice, what is restorative justice? I want you to explain what is restorative justice? And why is it such a great model for bridge building?

Eloise Sepeda
Yeah, that’s a good question. And I want to also just comment back to your material and naming you.

Latasha Morrison
Yes. Go ahead.

Eloise Sepeda
As People of Color in spaces and in my presentations or keynotes, whatever I’m doing, I always, always address both our People of Color and our white folks. Right? And I always, always share with our people that we have some unlearning to do as well. Right? We have to unlearn and undo internalized oppression and conditioning within ourselves. Because when we take people’s material and make it our own, then we’ve just stepped into colonization. Right? And that’s literally the grounding, you know, nuts and bolts of how America was formed. Right? Is the colonizers came, took the farming techniques and took all the techniques from Aboriginal people, and we’re still doing that today and even to each other. So yes, if you are a Be the Bridge follower or builder or group leader, give credit where credit is due. Because Tasha Morrison and her team have put blood, sweat, and tears into this material. And you just can’t mess with the anointing. I mean, you can try to copy it. (laughter) All the things.

Latasha Morrison
Yeah, oh believe me. People have tried to copy it, they’ve tried to hire people to copy it, you know, just all of these things. And we are a 501(c)(3). And so we make money through the selling of our resources. So if people are using our resources and making photocopies of it, that’s not pouring back into the ministry. Especially if you’re doing this as a church, and your church is not a supporter or a partner of Be the Bridge, then you’re just really taking, and you’re not giving. Like we want this resource to be used to reach your church community, you know, the community, your organization, your family, but we want to make sure that we’re doing it the right way. And so we actually, you know, are coming up with a whole licensing program that we’re going to be rolling out in 2024. So we’re excited about all of those great things. And so the thing is, we want you to grow, we want you to do, but we also want to make sure that you’re not causing more harm by not being trained in how to use our materials, because that gets back to us too. So we have a lot of People of Color that are a part of, you know, churches and communities that are using our curriculum, but they’re not being trained by us, they’re not coming to any of our events to educate themselves. And so sometimes the People of Color or even some of the white people that are a part of those communities are being harmed. And so maybe we need some restorative justice just to even deal with that as a whole. (laughter) But we’re gonna, we want to even enrich this restorative justice model of what we’re doing within our Be the Bridge community and so there’s gonna be a lot of new things coming out. So, you know, explain to us – thank you so much for adding that, you know, how we can perpetuate harm, even ourselves when we do things like that. But, you know, just give us a little update as far as like, what it is, because I think there’s some people that are part of part of our community, and they’re like, “Wait a minute. Be the Bridge is based off restorative justice? Hmm, why did I miss that?” That means you don’t have the new guide. (laughter)

Eloise Sepeda
I love it. I love it. I love that your modeling that we can go back and build, like there’s building blocks, right? There’s growth. I’m rewriting right now my curriculum for trauma-informed church. So that’s, you know, sometimes we learn, we grow and we have to go back and update our material. So what is restorative justice? I have the same, I have a very similar concern about how people will get trained and then try to go off and you know, go to one training and then go off and do the work and then potentially cause more harm. Because there’s colonized version of restorative justice and then there’s the restorative justice. Right? And, which is also called the peacemaking process. And the colonized restorative justice version is primarily used or started in the 70s here in Western culture, which is the US. And it was primarily used and then coined as mediation. So that already indicates harm. That already indicates that something went wrong in the community or in a relationship, and now there’s an issue to address. The decolonized restorative practices really focuses on community building and strengthening our community. Indigenous communities and Aboriginal people used restorative practices basically to govern their own people. So they didn’t need a government, right? They were governing their own people, their own tribes by building and strengthening that community, establishing norms within their community. Addressing harm, yes, they had to address harm, they also issued assignments. Who was hunting? Who was cleaning? Who was doing, you know, what, so it was used for basically household and community management. And then it was also used for celebration. It was used to celebrate, you know, births; it was used to celebrate maturities; it was used to celebrate food; it was used to just celebrate each other. And then also used for education. Right? That is where the community would learn from each other and teach each other. There wasn’t a hierarchial position in teaching. Yes, there are elders who would pass on wisdom. And then there were the youth who would take that wisdom. And once they started teaching their, let’s say younger siblings that regardless of what age they were, then they became an elder. Because elder meant to teach, it meant to share wisdom. And so we in the western states say, “You can teach this when you have this degree, that degree.” “You can teach this when you’ve done this level of work, and where did you get your training from?” Right, and all of these stipulations that determine who can teach. But in all reality, my favorite teachers in RJ work are youth. Are youth. Youth are brilliant. Youth are creative. We’ve got a lot of unlearning to do. They’re still learning. And so that’s like the right like pivotal moment where you can capture just such a level of wisdom and resilience and creativity and new language. Like you want to talk about replacing the old with the new, like, if you don’t know what rizz is you’re not up to date. (laughter) It’s all about learning from each other. And ageism goes both ways, right? Like we can exclude and, “Oh, you’ve got something to learn.” And we see veterans in workplaces and seniority and all these things, when in reality, we have just as much to learn from our elders as we do as the people that are coming up. And so using restorative practices, restorative justice, however you want to frame it, we say restorative justice, is an opportunity to focus on an individual person or an individual community to then focus on building and strengthening that community. You can also address harm in using restorative justice. I use RJ/TJ. Restorative justice and transformative justice. Because I’ve been doing this work so long, and doing this work in the community, I was like, “Okay, I’m reaching in the river.” Right? Everyone’s heard about the analogy about the children in the river. Where are they coming from, and they’re drowning in the river. And so we’ve been reaching in and pulling children and families out of the river for so long. At some point, you have to stop and say, “Wait, how are they even falling in the river?”

Latasha Morrison
Right.

Eloise Sepeda
Where’s the loophole? Right? Are they getting pushed? Are they not seeing a gap? Like what’s happening? So I started traveling up the river and saying, “Okay, there’s not enough time or resources to help these individuals or families – what’s going on?” And that’s when I started taking a look at policies, at systems and saying, “Okay, wait a minute. I’m seeing the gaps.” And transformative justice is changing those systems which continue to perpetuate violence, harm, poverty, all the things, oppression on people, mostly People of Color. Right? We’re not going to sugarcoat anything here on Black and Brown, Indigenous, Asian Pacific communities, right? And so on, there’s a lot of, and I’m not going to other people, right, but all People of Color. And what I saw is these systems that were causing individuals and families to fall into the waters went all the way back to days of colonization and slavery. And so what we call systems today is modern day slavery. The systems, the foundational systems back then, and I’ll use child welfare as one of them. It was one of the founding systems in the US. That’s where children were taken from their families, Indigenous children taken from their families, put in orphanages, and then stripped of culture. They were not allowed to speak their language, they were not allowed to dance, they were not allowed to do the things that they do. Well, if we fast forward, we look at our education system, imitating that system and our child welfare systems imitating that as well. So restorative justice and transformative justice gives us the framework to be able to address both. So we’re going to support and I’m doing air quotes for those of you that can’t see me.

Latasha Morrison
They will see the video. They will see the video. So yes. (laughter)

Eloise Sepeda
I’m going to be doing this. (laughter) So let’s use an example of a family who is barely making it, paycheck to paycheck. Right? So they’re likely under the poverty level. So now because they don’t have adequate shoes and clothes and food and all these things, a call goes into child welfare for neglect or abuse. And it’s primarily, our people are primarily reported for neglect, which then falls, and then 84% of people who are reported live under the poverty level. And so we’re supporting this family. And then we say, “Okay, let’s address the immediate needs. Let’s build some bridges with this family to their school, to the community resources, right, everyone that is in position, to their church, that can help them, and then let’s find out why this family is in the need that they’re in.” So we find out that maybe mom is undocumented, or, you know, dad has a criminal record. We’re not even going to, we don’t have time to talk about mass incarceration. But that’s a real thing.

Latasha Morrison
Right.

Eloise Sepeda
And so there are barriers that have kept this family from being able to be, to achieve the family’s greatness because of this ceiling of oppression. And so then we say, “Okay, what systems need to be changed so that dad can get a job?” And then we work with individual organizations to say, what is your policy say about that? How can we change those policies? So now, let’s use Goodwill, as an example. No, I’m not publicizing for Goodwill, I haven’t done work with Goodwill, but we’re just going to throw it out there, because everyone knows who that is. And let’s say Goodwill changes their policy, and now they help people with backgrounds to get a job. So that’s part of transformative justice. Right? And now we’re connecting mom with services who can help her get her papers, and help her get the support that they need. And now we’re able to look at affordable housing. So all of those changes around that family is where transformative justice and restorative justice are married. That’s how we’re able to see sustainable changes. Because if we just keep addressing challenges.

Latasha Morrison
The bottom line things while they’re in the river. And we’re like, “Oh, they need clothes in the river. They need food in the river.” But like, how do we keep them from getting in the river?

Eloise Sepeda
How do we keep them? Yes!

Latasha Morrison
How do we keep them on the land, out of the system?

Eloise Sepeda
Yes!

Latasha Morrison
And it seems like, it just seems like common sense. But common sense is not as common as we think. Because even the idea of you thinking about the systems that are bringing harm to people or the ways that we do justice is bringing systemic harm to families, generation after generation, after generation, after generation. At some point, we should get tired of that, because that’s impacting the whole, not just that individual. We are collective, we’re connected to each other, it is impacting all of us. Homelessness is impacting all of us. And so if we don’t look at this, you know, from a high systemic place to see, okay, what things in our mental health care system? What things and, you know, aftercare for the military? When people, like, how do we move people back in society after they’ve been in prison? How do we really restore them without still being punished? After they’re out of prison? If we don’t have systems and programs and funds to help, we keep getting this same cycle. But even to say that what we’re saying, even to say that in our society, and the culture that we live in, to think critically about those things, is a negative thing. And it makes no sense from a gospel standpoint. Like it makes no sense from a Christian standpoint, you know, to really think about these things and how we how can we prevent this cycle of oppression and marginalization. So, you are dealing with some hard things. What types of communities and organizations are you working with as it relates to the restorative justice and transformation justice framework?

Eloise Sepeda
I would say all. I would say primarily marginalized communities, of course. Not gonna leave my people behind. This is for my people.

Latasha Morrison
Yeah.

Eloise Sepeda
And then multidisciplinary fields. So I’ve worked with education, with law enforcement, co-authored curriculum for Texas state for law enforcement. I think I said educators already, social work, crisis support, human trafficking, domestic violence, sexual assault, DA’s office, civil and criminal systems. Gosh, did I leave anybody out? Anybody, churches, churches have engaged in training because, and I’m glad you brought up, the church’s role in this. Because for a long time, and still today, the church is serving as a ministry of support in a saviorism manner. And so we’re having the food pantries, we’re doing that work, but are we doing any work to find out why the families are hungry? Right? Are we doing any of that long term work? Because our churches are our primary place that people go to for support and for healing. And what the work that we do within churches is, first of all, we point to the Word. Justice is in the word over 140 times, depending on the translation that you’re reading. If God is talking about justice, than we as the Church need to be talking about justice. And what does that look, what does justice look like in the Word? And in the Word, justice is translated as “to make right.” How do we make things right? How do we make things right for the people that are trusting us with their stories, with their tears, with their fears? How are we supporting the people that are counting on us the most?

AD BREAK

Latasha Morrison
I mean, I think one of the scriptures that really led me into this path. There was a conviction. I think in order to do this work, there has to be a conviction to sustain you and to keep you in this work. And, you know, mine, you know, I actually, I have one tattoo. And my one tattoo says…

Eloise Sepeda
Let me celebrate your tattoo! (laughter)

Latasha Morrison
I know, right?! I never finished it because it hurt. I don’t understand all of you who have them.

Eloise Sepeda
I have a ton!

Latasha Morrison
That’s your business, but they do not feel good. So I’ve never finished it. But you know, like that scripture in Isaiah 1:17, it says, “Learn to do right, seek justice, defend the oppressed, take up the cause of the fatherless, and plead the cause of the widow.” And if you continue to read on in Isaiah, you just hear this plead for justice, and there’s this punishment coming, because, you know, you’re not doing the work of justice. You’re not putting action, you’re not doing the work of it. You’re bringing incense, you’re doing religious ceremony, but you’re not doing the things that matter to God. You’re more concerned with your religious services. And so we can take that in today’s terms and look at you’re more concerned with getting a larger screen so that it projects better while you’re you’re presenting online. We’re more concerned about our facility or how many people show up in church. Or, you know, all these things that really don’t make sense in eternity.

Eloise Sepeda
I agree.

Latasha Morrison
And so, so yeah, so when you say that, when we talk about justice, those are some of the things that are like, convicting for me. And I feel like there’s a lot of people who want to do this work, but it’s not a conviction. So I think the prayer is that the work of justice, you know, what it means to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with our God like that, that we would embody that as individuals. And I think, you know, in this work we’re doing, because we need more practitioners, we need more people to join in this work that we’re doing. Because if not, what we’re doing is passing trauma down from generation to generation. Tell me a little bit about Harmony One Solutions. I know this is the name of your organization. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

Eloise Sepeda
Yeah! So God gave me the name through lots and lots of prayer. The prayer that I rest on, or the scripture that I rest on is Psalms 89:14: “Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne. Steadfast love and faithfulness go before you.” And so as I was praying about this, and knowing that when you dig deeper into restorative justice work, you’ll recognize, if you’re really reading your Bible, you’ll recognize that Jesus used this work. He sat with his disciples. Right? He built community with them. He broke bread with them. Everything that I’ve been talking about. He addressed individual growth opportunities and issues and then the big transformative work. Right? And so I’m like, “Wow, Jesus, you’re amazing. So if righteousness and justice is the foundation of your throne, then it needs to be the foundation of my work.” Because I only do this because of him. Because my BC days, didn’t care about nobody. Like nobody. So it is literally the love of Jesus. And so, God gave me the name. So harmony, the definition is a combination of simultaneous sounds to produce chords and progressions. It’s not the same sound, it’s simultaneous sound. So when we think about our voices in a space, our collective voices, cries, concerns. Right? All the things that we share, worship, all the things that we share, we’re producing this arrangement of sound. The second meaning is an arrangement of the four gospels. When I saw that it was done, it was done. And it’s the parallel narratives. And so when you look at this work, and you bring people together to all share their story, they all have something different to add. You can take people that all serve witness to the same car accident, and they’re all going to say, “I saw it coming from this way.” “I saw it coming from this way.” “I saw it this way.” And that’s what we need in this work is for people with different perceptions. Not that everybody’s saying the same thing. Like, no, we need to find the gaps. And so harmony was embedded. And then One references a person or thing mentioned, a change from one to another, and then one being unity. And so this allows us to remain our individual selves, to stay true to our individual convictions and vows to God and purpose, and then join together in unity as one towards a movement, right, not conformity, but to not to conform, but to transform. And so the two together is bringing multiple perspectives to join as one in a movement. So that is where Harmony One came from. And it was Harmony One Restorative Justice for a long time until we just recently shifted. We’ve been doing some rebranding this year, and called it Solutions, because of the transformative justice work that’s being added. We work with systems folks, and then support our local communities at no cost. What we do with systems, there’s a consultation fee, a training fee, a coaching fee, all of that. But when we serve our communities, there is no fee. I have been referred families who are in the reunification process, just like what you mentioned, whether it’s a parent coming home, or child separation and that child is being returned home or that child is being moved to grandparents house or whoever’s whatever family member they’re placed with. And then individual support for survivors of domestic violence, human trafficking, sexual assault, and other types of violence, gun violence, police brutality, you name it. So I always say I charged Peter to serve Paul. (laughter) And so that’s the work that we do in Harmony One.

Latasha Morrison
Wow, like, you mentioned something you said, like, you know, justice and righteousness are the foundation of his throne. And it’s the foundation of the work that you do. And it also should be the foundation of our hearts. You know, justice is about being. It’s not just about doing. We want to do justice, but we want to be just. We want to be righteous, you know, and so, you know, in this work, we do a lot of facilitating. And so we’re hosting conversations in our community, what we call like, kind of like Dessert and Dinner or Doughnuts and Dessert, whatever, like to kind of that first ramp of conversation where people who are just, you know, beginning to have this conversation in maybe a broken community. And so, one the conversation that Be the Bridge just facilitated was a conversation between police officers, and you know, from the marginalized community of at risk young Black boys. And so that they can see each other. So they can see these officers in flesh and, you know, these officers can see them, hear them, hear their fears, hear their stories, know their family, all these things. And they actually worked with this organization called L.E.A.D. Atlanta and they actually they facilitate a baseball game that the police officers participate in with these young boys. This is that type of work where I see you as human, because I’m sitting at this table with you having a conversation with you.

Eloise Sepeda
Yes.

Latasha Morrison
And hearing you say that, you know, you don’t feel safe anywhere. You don’t feel safe at school, you don’t feel safe at the street. The only place you feel safe is in your room at home. When the only place you feel safe is in your room at home. Or with your parent. You know, so them hearing that is really them getting up close and personal with the people they serve. Because they’re here to serve. And so those are some of the things that we do. And so when we talk about restorative practices to promote anti-racism, anti-violence, holistic eco systems of support to all communities align so much with the vision of Be the Bridge. I’d love for you to talk about that work and how your work is actually used in anti-racism work, anti-violence, and some of the holistic ecosystems. You named a few, but just like maybe give a few examples of some so people can really see how broad and how big this is. And this is a resource and a tool that we have where people are doing real work, real community asset development work within communities using these Indigenous tools. And so just just imagine if we were using the the noncolonized version of that work. And so yeah, so just explain a little bit about that.

Eloise Sepeda
Yeah. So I would say, first, like, I think a lot of the hesitation or resistance to restorative justice, I’m gonna say RJ TJ is that people still have in mind the colonized version. Again, right? So they’re thinking of justice as I gotta go marching, I gotta hold signs, I gotta pick a side. It’s a political, you know, movement. And it’s not. So when we look at the decolonized version, the true version, we’re looking at, I want to build community. I want to strengthen community with the people that I’m doing life with. And the anti-racism work that we’re able to do through that is to say, one of the number one questions that we ask is, how has systemic racism and oppression impacted you? Regardless of what your race and ethnicity is, everyone answers that even if it is a white person saying, “I’ve benefited from that.” “I’ve benefited from the systems. I have privilege from that.” That is creating a space where real dialogue can happen. And then to hear, be in a space in a structured conversation. Right? When I say structure, that means we’re not talking over each other, we’re using the talking piece, we’re doing all of that, even if it’s virtual, for people to be able to say, “I’ve been passed up for promotions.” “I’ve been turned down in bank loans.” “I’ve been followed in a store.” And I always say, because values are, there’s a lot of training to do around values as well. Because people automatically think that we’re built with them. And we’re not. Values are developed. They’re instilled in us and they’re developed. And so I always say through this process, empathy is developed. Right? We can’t expect, it’s not something that can be ordered. So when we go into circles or we go into the process, and people are like empathy. I’m like alright, let’s talk about empathy. Empathy and respect are the two main ones that pop up. And so it builds a sense of empathy and a greater understanding about what the real challenges are, the day to day challenges of, “Why I’m afraid to drop my child off at school.” “Why I don’t want them to catch the city bus home.” “Why I’m working multiple jobs.” All of these day to day issues and giving people a real understanding that it’s not race bait. This is reality, this is humanity, that we are all living out day to day. It also helps to develop some, I call it aspiring allyship. I do not use the term allyship lightly. Because I believe that our white bodied friends are going to be working towards addressing their privilege and undoing what has been embedded through them, whether it’s upbringing or in their DNA, and what that’s a whole nother training as well about what racism looks like, what biases and power looks like, and to be able to address those things in space consistently develops that aspiring allyship. Right? So it’s a white body aiming to be an ally. I very, very rarely handout the allyship card. Because it’s like I said, it’s ongoing work, and anybody can go back or opt out of a conversation. We don’t get to opt out of those conversations. So we also use the anti-racism work to really look again at – whether it’s in a workplace process or circle, because I get called in to do RJ circles between staff and boards or board of directors or all staff, you name it really like what does our policies look like, for all of our staff? And when we’re looking at, we’re like, “Okay, you have four white bodies in executive leadership. You have, you know, two out of five in mid management, and then you Have all POC at frontline. They’ve got the harder jobs, the longer hours, the less pay.” Right? And so we start looking at that equity and pay equality and opportunity within jobs. The same within schools, no matter what department or what field we’re doing that work in, we’re doing it. And then with community, I would say that was a real challenge, Tash, when we started. Because people were like, “Why are you talking to white people? Like you turned on us. Like, what are you doing?” Right? And I don’t know if you got that, but I got that a lot. And, I was like, “No, we’re working towards racial reconciliation.” Because yes, in my upbringing, I was taught we don’t trust white bodies. Right? White bodies hurt us, white bodies separate us, white bodies tell on us, right, which is also known as reporting. And so really being able to build those relationships through this anti-racism work with communities and providers, or communities and pastors, right, because we have a lot of white pastors out there, you know, funders, you name it, then we’re able to start seeing more understanding. And that leads to accountability. Right? To be able to say, “hey, in this space, we said, we’re gonna do X, Y, and Z, and I’m not seeing that.” So we’re really empowering the people. My personal story to that, Tash, is when I got saved, it’s really a Paul story. You know that. I was born and raised a heathen. I was bad as all get out. I had a one way ticket to hell. Like you name it. Right? And in God’s grace, His mercy, His love, He reached down and pulled me out of that pit of hell that I was in. And I remember in the early days, before I knew much about God, I didn’t even know what a chapter and a verse was called. Right? God moved me through the story of Esther. And that is my vow to God. As she was positioned in a place she didn’t belong. Her people would have never been in her position or in the rooms that she was in or had the access that she had. So when I think of RJ TJ work, I think of how God pulled me from this position and has placed me in rooms and at tables and in conversation with judges, with policymakers, with I mean, you name it, federal policy makers to be able to advocate for my people is exactly what Esther did. And God told Esther, “If you don’t do it, someone else will.” And there ain’t nothing like be replaced by God. “No, God, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’ll do it.” And that’s, to me the anti-racism work. Because Esther was building a bridge between two communities. And although the war wasn’t canceled, she had the access to go back and empower and equip her people to be able to fight that war. Our people are sitting ducks. Our people have been sitting ducks for hundreds of years, and will continue to be if we don’t do more about it as a people, as a community, and just as human beings.

Latasha Morrison
Yeah. Yeah. And that was just our journey. You know, when we first started, you know, the group wasn’t called Be the Bridge at that time. We were having these hard conversations. And then Ferguson happened. And Ferguson happened in the midst of us having these conversations. And we were able to give a totally different perspective because we live in, you know, homogenous like communities, where you wouldn’t have heard someone else’s perspective and why they feel the way they feel about the circumstance. Because, hey, these are the experience, there’s a pattern here that you don’t know about because you’re not privy to this information in our communities. But there’s a pattern here. And you can look at the history of the community, and that’s going to give you even more insight. So all of these things. And, so I think, that was just really helpful in helping to manage these conversations. And we were very honest with one another. We were, you know, and I found, one of the things that you said, you said that a lot of times people in the group, they’ll say, “Well, how does this impact you?” They don’t try to, you know, you shouldn’t try to make stuff up. Because sometimes people will try to make something up. Like, I remember, you know, talking about racism, and, you know, this one girl told me, she said, “Well, you know,” like, I forget what percentage she said of the population. We were talking about seeing yourself, like, seeing yourself in a tennis player or someone some of the first to do things. Like, you know, seeing a brown ballerina or seeing tights now that are made for all hues of skin or makeup stuff. We were having that conversation. And she said, “You know, yeah, bandaids.” And she said, “You know, like, only a certain percentage of the population has red hair.” And I said, “You oppressed because you got red hair?” (laughter) “Yeah, I don’t see a lot of dolls with red hair, but I think you’re missing the point.” So that’s why it’s so good in these conversations, to really listen, and not try to compare your situation to a marginalized group. You are not marginalized because you have red hair.

Eloise Sepeda
Right, right.

Latasha Morrison
You know? You are not marginalized because you have red hair.

Eloise Sepeda
If our problems could be solved by box of color, hello, somebody!

Latasha Morrison
Yes. I can see if you say that, like, if you’re talking about gender. If you’re talking about being a woman, you can relate being a woman in corporate space or being a woman within the church, there are some things that you can relate to as it relates to marginalization, you know, comparing that. But not red hair. Don’t compare red hair to me. And even though you that you may think, “Well, you know, I don’t, it’s hard for me to find makeup, or it’s hard for me to get that.” Keep that to yourself. I don’t want to hear that. In the grand scheme of things of what people are doing. We’re talking about life and death.

Eloise Sepeda
Yes. Yes.

Latasha Morrison
You know in the grand scheme of things, you ain’t dying because of your red hair. So some things in these group settings, you need to take that to Jesus.

Eloise Sepeda
And some of that happens in the church too. Because, I mean, I would say the most complex conversations that I’ve had about race is with, I’m like, “If you don’t stop whitewashing this.” Okay, you want to talk about it. Because I know my word cover to cover. So yes, let’s talk about the word, because my Bible, it defines the people by their culture, by their ethnicity. Right? It’s the Samaritans. It’s the Nazarites. It’s the Egyptians. My Bible cover to cover identifies people by their culture. And so no. Yes, Jesus loves us all. And he also addressed the culture, the geographical challenges, the famine, the racism within oppression, within the word. And so yes.

Latasha Morrison
Some people said, “Well, there was no…” Okay, ethnic hostility that’s addressed throughout Scripture. You know, and so that is so true. The Bible has an answer, but are we willing to listen? Are we willing to lament? Are we willing to to learn? Are we willing to do that? We call it the L’s of work, you know, we say listen, learn, lament, and leverage. Are we willing to do that work? That deep work, that heart work, not the surfacey work. Because it is to surfacey work that is the problem. Where you read one book or you go to one conference and you think you know everything. Or you have one friend of color and you think you know everything. If that is you, that you don’t know anything, even if you have a wealth of friends, even if you read 10,000 books, is your heart transformed? Has your mind bit been renewed? And so that’s the deep work that we have to do. So.

Eloise Sepeda
And he did that first. Jesus is the king of reconciliation. He is the king of a transparency, confession, and repentance, and reconciliation. He always said he reconciled us first.

Latasha Morrison
Right.

Eloise Sepeda
He went to the Father on our behalf because we were wronged. So when we can share our wrongs, like you said, in a real deep authentic way. To say, you know what? Because some of the hard work is hard, like what are some of the biases that you’ve had about another race? And you got people saying like, “Well, I used to think my neighbors like had too many cars parked in their grass and in their driveway. And I just thought all Hispanics did that.” And I had a friend tell me before, who’s another woman of color, Black woman said, “You know what? Y’all knew the secret to generational wealth.” And I was like, “What are you talking about?” And she says, “Now I understand why y’all took in grandma, and y’all took care of grandma. Now I understand why you take in your family, and why multiple families live in a home. And now we understand like, you’re saving, you’re building, you’re buying.” And I was just like, man. And you know, to hear someone else’s perspective is impressive. And so sharing those sometimes it’s hard. Oh, I have seen veins pop out of people’s neck. But that’s doing the hard work.

Latasha Morrison
And we have to know each other stories. It’s important for us to know and understand each other so we don’t play that oppression olympics. And you do this work, I wanted you to talk about also. There’s a book that you contributed to called Restorative Discipline Practices: A Journey in Implementation by a Community of Texas Educators. So you’ve done some stuff in Texas, as it relates to using restorative practices as dealing with discipline in schools. Can you tell us just a little bit about that? You know, share a little bit about that. And then we’ll go back to this other subject you were talking about.

Eloise Sepeda
I know, there’s so much!

Latasha Morrison
There’s so much. We can’t cover it all. That’s why, let me just say this. This is why, all of this, this is like, I mean, we can have this conversation all day. We cannot nail it all within one hour. But Eloise is gonna be with us, I think you’re gonna be with us at our Leadership Summit that we’re having in January for those who want to lead Be the Bridge groups, who are leading Be the Bridge groups. This is our training course. This is our training event that we offer for those who are leading these conversations in their community and their corporations and their churches. This is where you come to get trained to do this work more effectively and really learning to cultivate relationships with other people who are doing this work. So Eloise is going to be with us there and she’s going to go a lot deeper into the RJ TJ practices and stuff. So yeah, just tell me a little bit how you’re doing this with discipline.

Eloise Sepeda
Yeah, so, with discipline, what we recognized – and this is national data – is that Black children were disciplined at a higher rate, Black female children were disciplined at an even higher rate than any other children. Second to that is Brown children, Brown girls, then Brown boys. And disciplined in a way that that resulted in missing or lack of education. So we call that the school to prison pipeline. So children were removed out of class, which is their community, which also imposed sense of shame and embarrassment, guilt, condemnation. Right? All the things that are imposed on this kid. Right? “You’re bad. Get out. You’re not good enough to be here.” Where would they go? They’d go to ISS, which is in school suspension which we frame as the beginning stages of conditioning for prison. They are taught basically how to stay in their cubicle all day long. Their work is brought to them, their food is brought to them, or they’re taken to lunch outside of regular lunch schedule. They walk in a straight line. Right? All the things that that involve isolation and seclusion. Then they’re released back into class without any or little reentry process, which is extremely important, because then the reason that they were let go is usually not addressed with their community, or they’re put on a contract. Right? So that’s close to probation, parole. So it’s all the conditioning work. Then we look at the next level of discipline, which is out of school suspension. They’re completely excluded from the building itself. So now they are really out in the community, they’re left vulnerable, likely hungry. A lot of kids get their meals, their community connections at school, their support. They may be missing their tutoring, all the extra things that they’re supposed to get, which then also increases the gap in connection and relationship. So now, the kiddo is less likely to kind of reconnect with their peers, reconnect with their teachers, and also reconnect with resources. Right? So they may were supposed to go on Thursday to go pick up their voucher for glasses or something, or go to the after school program, but they were suspended. And now they’re like, “Forget that program. I don’t want to go.” And so now, the result of that is the student is also rejecting this. And what does that do for the family as a whole? It puts a burden on the family to the caregiver, the parents, to have to miss work, losing hours, losing pay potentially, losing PTO time to have to go to these meetings. Also, hearings are usually involved. So it could be an ARD hearing, their version of reentry hearing, which is all again, the colonized version of punitive discipline. And then the next step is, is alternative learning schools, which is what we call the closest you can get to prison system within the school system. So it’s a completely separate school. Again, now they’re wearing all the same clothing, usually jeans and a white shirt or something of that sort, blue bottoms, white top. So everyone is uniform. Again, there’s higher security, there’s stricter policies, kiddos walking in line, the school structure, all the things so yes, they’re getting an education, but not at the level that they needed or with the connections that they had maybe for their accommodations. Because we also recognize in data that kiddos who receive special education are also looped into that increased punitive discipline practice. And so the work that we’ve done and continue to do in schools is really to tackle every single one of those policies and practices that results in the child being excluded. And helping again, the non colonized version, helping the child build healthier communities, maintain relationships, so we call it prevention, intervention, and complex response. So complex response involves reentry, reunification, any kind of treatment level support that they need. Now, maybe they’re getting tested. Right? So maybe they were acting up in school because they weren’t keeping up. They couldn’t comprehend the lessons. So now we finally got them to a point. Because it’s a lot of advocacy for a parent to get their child tested and the accommodations that they need. And so we’re building those bridges really between the students and community, but then also enhancing the community to include community partners, grassroots organizations, churches, youth leaders, mental health providers, and even with the law enforcement that is at the school. We’ve been able to see some real success stories because a child was connected to someone within their school. Surprisingly, even an officer. Right? There was an officer at one of the schools, who always played basketball, he was always on the court playing basketball with the kiddos. And he built a great relationship with them. And so sometimes they would call him in and say, like, “I want…” because they could pick the support person in the school. And they’d say, “I want him to come.” And so by addressing this, again, when we open, I mentioned the two foundational systems that were developed in the days of colonization and slavery, and that’s child welfare and the education institution. And so now we’re able to embed these practices and build these tools. So it’s a skill building practice. It’s a tool that this kiddo is going to be able to take with them wherever they go. Because we often share with kiddos, like, harm is inevitable, it’s going to happen. And so the earlier that we can instill these practices in our kiddos, the better chances they are at keeping a job. They’re not going to get mad, cuss people out and walk out, keeping a relationship, a marriage, a family, being able to connect with their children and their community and their church. So it’s really a skill that is necessary for us all. And then we’ve seen parents or the caregivers, grandparents and aunties, whomever it is that’s caring for the kiddo start engaging in this practice as well. So now we’re able to address not only intergenerational trauma, but to instill some intergenerational healing within families and individuals. And then even teachers have come forward and said, “I need this for my family too. This is going on, this is going on.”  So we’re seeing that ripple effect of healing.

Latasha Morrison
Yeah, because we shouldn’t, as a society, we shouldn’t want to hold the record of the most incarcerated people in the world. You know what I’m saying? We shouldn’t want that statistic not in a country that stands for liberty and justice for all. You know what I’m saying? We shouldn’t want those statistics. And I think, you know, when you do have those community bridge builders, those community partners to work alongside the school and the community. I’ve seen it work where, you know, there was some business people in a church that worked together to put a person, a full time person in this apartment complex that had high turnover of people where all those kids were not passing the standardized tests that we call, behavior issues, all these things. But when a full time person was put in place to have an after school program, where those kids could go after school, get help with their homework, get a healthy snack, engage in conversation with the leader, learn values, you know, learn all types of life skills that they were learning, getting help, 90% of those children that were in that program, all of them passed the test the next year. Behavior problems ceased. So there are solutions. But we’re not willing to put the work to do this bridge building that needs to happen. You know? None of this is hopeless.

Eloise Sepeda
It’s not.

Latasha Morrison
I look at the homeless, you know, the houseless population now, and we see it in just about every city, all the things that’s happening. And I’m like, we’ve sent people to the moon. We float cities on oceans basically.

Eloise Sepeda
Come on. Come on. Yes.

Latasha Morrison
You know, we’re sending people up to orbit the Earth. But we can’t think of a solution for houselessness? And so I’m so grateful for the work that my brother Terence Lester is doing here in Atlanta with Love Beyond Walls. I had him on the podcast. But I’m so grateful for you and the work that you’re doing. What story, I want, you know, you talk about this this RJ TJ work. And I think I’ve been a witness to this. What is the story of restoration that you’ve seen in maybe someone that you’ve worked with?

Eloise Sepeda
Thank you for for asking that, because the stories keep me going. Because it’s a lot of work. And it is hard. And I love Lester’s work too. And I believe that we have to do the work we do outside the four walls. I believe that there was an awakening and the church was forced to move outside the four walls. And so the success story that comes to mind is a person that was referred to me for domestic violence. And she had encountered domestic violence, and she was very resistant in the beginning. And over here, they call me the survivor whisperer, because they’re like, “If there’s a person that can’t get through to these people, minors or adults, then Eloise.” So she was sent to me, and I just really used the process. First humanity, you know, two the love of God, and the process. Practice what I preach. And so I’m building a relationship with her at her pace. At her pace. And that’s the important thing is because we want to measure the success of relationships based on our own pace. And that’s not the way that the world turns. Because we don’t know the trauma that the other person has endured. And so it took a little while. And finally she started attending one of my classes. And she would stay after, and she started helping pick up the stuff from the table, and just kind of talking after everybody left. And so then I started seeing, “Okay, she’s reaching for this olive branch that I have out.” And we just started sharing more and more, she started letting me in. And then I discovered that she was actually not enduring domestic violence, she was enduring human trafficking. And the person that they accused her of fighting with was not an intimate partner. It was a person trafficking her. And she’s like, “I don’t want to do this. I don’t want to do this. But I don’t know how to tell because this person is threatened, that person’s threatened. He’s threatened my children, my family, all these things.” And so, “I said okay, let’s work on getting you out. Let’s work on getting you safe.” And her children had been removed because they thought she was in a domestic violence situation. And so we got her housing, we got her support, legal support, we were able to rally at her pace. And every single step of the way, it was like, “Okay, let’s think about who we’re going to add to the next meeting.” And it took a while, but it was so worth it. Because through this process, we were able to guarantee her safety, we were able to track this trafficker. This trafficker was taken off the streets. This young mom got her children back, she got housing. She got, even even her job like the system was saying like, “You need a job. We need paystubs.” And she’s like, she was so traumatized. She couldn’t even get on the bus, Tash, we would have bus sessions. We’d say, “Okay, ride the bus from this corner to this corner.” And she would freak out and she’d run home from the bus stop. Right? And so we got her into counseling and therapy. We got her into all of this, into church, we found her a church. And we brought in the pastor into what we call success team meetings. So we built this, this community of people was willing to rally against this person who believed she was alone, and had been alone and isolated for so long and hurt over and over and over. And she began to see hope. And she began to see like, “Wait, people actually care. People are actually showing up. This doesn’t cost me anything?” And to be able to use the resources that are available. And this mom, the one barrier that we had a really hard time overcoming was the work, was a work job. Because she was afraid that they were going to find her. She’s like, you know, “There’s people they’re going to find me.” And we’re like, “Okay, what do you do really well? And what how are you raising money?” She was walking dogs for her neighbors, and she was grooming them. And so I was like, “All right, let’s go get you a DBA. Let’s launch your business. Let’s think outside the box.” Right? Like let’s not try to shove these people into these boxes that systems have developed for them. She got her DBA, she got her kids, her housing, all the things that she needed. And she’s doing amazing, she’s still doing amazing today. We still stay in contact, and her kiddos are doing great. Like, I’m so proud of her. She doesn’t have to ride the bus because she got a car. And so it’s just those type of stories that I’m like, if you just spend the time and you build relationships at their pace, then you can really see the challenges and the fear that people have to be able to come forward and ask for help. And so, um, you know, I think that was the main one. And she was a Person of Color, you know, that’s the other piece. Right? And she’s just like, you know, realistically, she’s like, “They’re not gonna believe me. They’re gonna hold this against me.” There had been this generational, because she had aged out of the child welfare system herself. And so she was like, “I know how this goes, I’m never gonna see my kids again.” She had zero hope, Tash, zero hope. And I remember when.

Latasha Morrison
And that cycle would have been still continued if there wasn’t intervention.

Eloise Sepeda
Right. Right. I remember when she got her kiddos. And we went, I went to her apartment, and we helped decorate her apartment and get it ready for her babies to come home. And we just sat in her living room, and we just cried, and we just danced and we celebrated. And it’s just one of the hundreds and hundreds of stories that give me hope to continue this work.

Latasha Morrison
Well, that is so good. You are hearing from Eloise Sepeda that she lives in Austin, Texas. She’s a Certified Professional Life Coach and Certified Human Rights Advocate and also a certified TBRI Practitioner. So we have some people that are a part of our community that are doing some amazing bridge building work. And so I’m so grateful that we met during that time in 2014. You know, and we stay connected since then, we had a lot of great, hard conversations. But I always tell people, one of the things that was a gift in our Be the Bridge group by the people, specifically the white people who were a part of that group, is their gift to listen. And they did not try to compare their stories. I remember when we talked about, you know, how have you experienced systemic racism. And, you know, all of the white people in that group, they didn’t try to make something up. They said, and because they understood at that point, what it was and what is not. “I have not experienced it, and I am here to hear your stories and to learn and to grow and to be transformed.” You know, that was a gift at that time. And it’s not a perfect work. You know, it’s an ugly work.

Eloise Sepeda
It’s a hard work!

Latasha Morrison
It’s an uncomfortable work. It’s a painful work. But when you’re willing to lean in, there can be some beauty from the ashes. And I’m seeing that with the work that you’re doing in RJ TJ. I look forward to hearing more stories. I’m so excited about you coming to the Summit this year. And, you know, for someone who would want to get involved in restorative justice work, what would be a good first step for them to take?

Eloise Sepeda
I would say seek decolonized restorative justice training. We’re releasing a new book the beginning of next year printed by Living Justice Press. They only support true authentic decolonized restorative justice work. It’s called, I think I just said, Colorizing Restorative Justice. You can look on that website for practitioners who practice decolonized restorative justice, so it’ll let you search by state as well. You can also always reach out to me, if I have the capacity and the ability to support you, I will. If not, I will point you to somewhere else. I have pointed to plenty of practitioners. We’re not in a world of competing. I mean, this is a big work. And also, you know, just really, I want to encourage any, you know, BTB practitioners and group leaders just to really lean in to the work that Tasha said. And I will be 100% I believe in giving credit where credit is due. And Tasha, that was the first faith based conversation that I had about race. I had done it in a lot of other places, but Be the Bridge was the first racial reconciliation church group of people that I had that conversation with and I remember the invitation. And I remember thinking, like, “Oh, boy, let’s see what this is about.” And then really hearing like what you said, you know, the white bodies in the space not making excuses and not trying to make something up and in the transparency that we were all able to share and your humility. Your humility to say, you know, “I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m just following God’s vision. And I don’t know where it’s gonna take me. And you weren’t even international yet.”

Latasha Morrison
(laughter) I had no idea. I had no idea that it would end up here, us talking on the podcast.

Eloise Sepeda
No, no, we went from the parking lot to the podcast girl. (laughter)

Latasha Morrison
(laughter) We’ve been somewhere like you and I, we’ve done a panel at South by Southwest a couple of years ago, you asked me to be a part of a panel there. So yeah.

Eloise Sepeda
You’ve asked me to be a part of panels. Just doing the work.

Latasha Morrison
Oh, yeah. And videos and all kinds of things. Yes, we’ve done that. We’ve been doing this together for a while. And it’s incredible. But you know, she is an expert in what she does. And so it’s just, it is an honor to know you and to see you grow and see you growing in all of these things. Like to take this, and you’re doing so many other things now. And it’s how you live your life. And so you embody this work. And so that’s what I would say it’s one thing to do it, but when you don’t embody it, when it hasn’t transformed your heart. When it hasn’t transformed your mind, it’s empty work. Its meaningless. And so that’s what, you want to make sure you’re living out this. And so you want to live out reconciliation, that means to make things right. So that is like, that is the thing where if you’re doing this work, but you’re not living this out personally, or if you’re doing it and not giving credit. If you’re doing it and you’re making copies, I’m bringing that back up, you’re not making it right. You’re adding to the issues. So all of that, I’m so grateful that you’re going to be with us. And so, what is something, as we close, what is something that is bringing you hope?

Eloise Sepeda
What is bringing me hope is really seeing, one, you thrive. Because this work, you know, God is the center and the foundation of who I am. And we can do this all day long in our communities and in our workplaces and all of that. But if we’re not doing it, where it matters most within our faith and within our churches and to see your work thrive the way that it has and the international impact that you have gives me hope. So when I’m talking to these church folks over here that haven’t caught on yet, I’m just like, okay, but there are 1000s of people over there that’s doing the work. So your one versus 1000. Right? Like God told David like, “Look back, you got 10000 over there1” And so your work gives me hope. And then second or maybe I should reverse this is my family and my children, my grandchildren, and seeing them do that work. Because integrity is when what are you doing when no one’s looking. And integrity to me is what are my children and my grandchildren doing that I’m doing? And so to see them love God and to see them aware of race and equity and addressing challenges and building healthy relationships. And girl, if I could tell you some of the conversations we have, like, I’m just so, they are, you said this in the beginning, they are my big why. And I would never in a day want my children or my grandchildren to endure the levels of trauma, the complex trauma, that I have. And so to see them have an opportunity for a healthy life. Like that’s hope for me. That is hope. To know God, love God, and then walk in that and aim for and just love people, and aim for justice and equity and advocate in their own little ways. That brings me hope. It tells me that I’m doing something right. I’ve done a lot wrong. But I’m doing something right.

Latasha Morrison
Right. And where can people follow you? And we’ll put this all in the show notes.

Eloise Sepeda
So my website is www.bethechange.tools. I have my own personal website as well EloiseSepeda.com. I’m on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook. What else is there? Twitter. All under my name, Eloise Sepeda. But you’re welcome to follow.

Latasha Morrison
She’s on TikTok too. We’re not going to leave that one out. (laughter) She’s twirling and doing cartwheels. Yeah.

Eloise Sepeda
Yes! You see all my sides, my serious side, my advocacy side, my crazy side.

Latasha Morrison
We have to have joy and fun. And that’s your outlet. Because you run hard. And so like you have to have your outlet. So thank you so much for joining us. I look forward to having more conversations. And all of this will be in the show notes. And we will tell everyone how to find you and how to connect with you. So thank you so much for listening to the Be the Bridge Podcast.

Narrator
Thanks for listening to the Be the Bridge Podcast. To find out more about the Be the Bridge organization and or to become a bridge builder in your community, go to BetheBridge.com. Again, that’s BeTheBridge.com. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, remember to rate and review it on this platform and share it with as many people as you possibly can. You can also connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Today’s show was edited, recorded, and produced by Travon Potts at Integrated Entertainment Studios in Metro Atlanta, Georgia. The host and executive producer is Latasha Morrison. Lauren C. Brown is the Senior Producer. And transcribed by Sarah Connatser. Please join us next time. This has been a Be the Bridge production.