Ep 274 | Democracy, Truth, and Hope with Sharon McMahon

Narrator
You are listening to the Be the Bridge Podcast with Latasha Morrison.

Latasha Morrison
[intro] How are you guys doing today? It’s exciting!

Narrator
Each week, Be the Bridge Podcast tackles subjects related to race and culture with the goal of bringing understanding.

Latasha Morrison
[intro] …but I’m gonna do it in the spirit of love.

Narrator
We believe understanding can move us toward racial healing, racial equity, and racial unity. Latasha Morrison is the founder of Be the Bridge, which is an organization responding to racial brokenness and systemic injustice in our world. This podcast is an extension of our vision to make sure people are no longer conditioned by a racialized society but grounded in truth. If you have not hit the subscribe button, please do so now. Without further ado, let’s begin today’s podcast. Oh, and stick around for some important information at the end.

Latasha Morrison
Be the Bridge community, I am always excited to bring special guests before you. And this is actually my first time meeting this special guest, but some of you may already follow her on the Instas. And you may know of her work. Sharon McMahon is on a mission to curate facts, fun, and inspiration by educating Americans on democracy, politics, and history. After years of serving as a high school government law teacher, Sharon took her passion for education to the Instagram. Did you notice I said the Instagram. (laughter)

Sharon McMahon
The Instagram.

Latasha Morrison
With a mission to combat political misinformation with nonpartisan facts. Sharon has earned a reputation as America’s government teacher and quickly amassed over a million social media followers, affectionately known as Governerds. Sharon is also the host of the top rated podcast Here’s Where it Gets Interesting, where each week she provides entertaining yet factual accounts of America’s most fascinating moments and people. I love it. I’m telling you, I’m gonna be one of your nerds. I love it.

Sharon McMahon
(laughter) Welcome.

Latasha Morrison
You transitioned from teaching high school government and a law teacher and you transitioned and you do this now over Instagram? What was that about? What led you down that road?

Sharon McMahon
Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but the 2020 election.

Latasha Morrison
Okay! (laughter)

Sharon McMahon
Maybe you noticed, Latasha, maybe you noticed some misinformation floating around the interwebs during that time.

Latasha Morrison
Yes, yes.

Sharon McMahon
Just a little bit of it. Just a small amount. And you know like one of the things that really just kept annoying me is how confidently wrong so many people were. So confident and cocky in their wrongness.

Latasha Morrison
Yes.

Sharon McMahon
And we’re talking about things that are actually just objective facts. Like, how does the electoral college work? I’m not even asking for your opinion on it. You know what I mean? Just an objective fact. Here’s how it works. I started noticing so many people who were confidently wrong about objective facts that I decided to start making some little explainer videos, thinking that instead of arguing in the comments with a bunch of people. Which we all know, arguing to strangers on the internet is the, you might as well just light the match, light minutes of your life on fire with a match.

Latasha Morrison
Right, right. (laughter)

Sharon McMahon
Right? That’s not useful. So I have a policy of not doing that. I’m not gonna argue with strangers. But if I make some little explainer videos that are easy to understand, short, simple to the point, they don’t name candidate names; they’re not telling you who to vote for; they’re not telling you, you know, this person’s good, this person’s bad. Maybe somebody would find them useful and they could drop a link in, you know, a social media comment where they’re like, “Just check this video out. This will explain how it works.” So that’s really the short answer is I started making little videos to combat things that all the Chads and the Brads that were confidently wrong on the Instagrams.

Latasha Morrison
Yes! I mean confidently wrong. I see it all the time. I’m like, you said that with such confidence.

Sharon McMahon
So much audacity.

Latasha Morrison
Even just a Google research, even just a pausing, you would realize that you are so wrong.

Sharon McMahon
(laughter) So wrong. 

Latasha Morrison
I had a…go ahead.

Sharon McMahon
I was gonna say there was this one guy who was like, when speaking going back to the electoral college he was talking about the electoral college campus. And I was like, “Hold up. Okay? It is not a place. There’s no campus. You can’t visit it. Have you ever seen anyone standing in front of the sign that says, The Electoral College? It’s not a place you can go, Chad. It’s not!” But they’re so confident. And it’s really…Mmmm. I bet you understand. It gets really annoying.

Latasha Morrison
Yeah. And I can relate in some ways, because I am, you see, I paused before I said your name, because I wanted to make sure that I pronounced it correctly. Because I am notorious. And I had an old boss that said, he said, “You…” Like I would say, “Yeah, the person’s name is Shannon.” And everybody knows that the person’s name is Sharon. But I said Shannon, and he said, “You say it was such confidence that I start questioning the knowledge that I had.” And that’s how this works in a sense. Like, sometimes when people are so wrong, and they say it, they repeat it over and over again – which is kind of like psychological warfare. Really. That is a tactic. If I give you the wrong information, and keep repeating the wrong information to you over and over again, eventually, you’re not going to know what to believe. And so that confusion allows you to believe either what I’m saying or maybe believe nothing at all. You know? And so, and we’re, I mean, we’re falling for it, what I call the okie doke. You ever heard of that, Sharon? Okie doke?

Sharon McMahon
Tell me, tell me.

Latasha Morrison
I just taught you something. Let me just tell you.

Sharon McMahon
I love it.

Latasha Morrison
When you can’t make it make sense, I just say, “Why are we falling for the okie doke?” I don’t know where I got that from. I think it was from a little kid growing around. It’s probably slang. No telling where the history came from. (laughter) I just like, don’t fall for the okie doke. Like don’t fall for the lies, the craziness, you know, don’t be misled. That’s kind of like what you say. And then it’s like you’re trying to make it make sense. And we can’t make it make sense. You were just talking, I know we were just talking about the Tennessee State Legislature. And I think there’s a lot of things when it comes to government that we really don’t understand. A lot of us are far removed from college. A lot of us are far removed from high school. And I know, what are some of the things and I know this is historic. But why is this something we really need to pay attention to what’s happening in Tennessee? I want you to repeat that again for me.

Sharon McMahon
Well, here’s the thing is that humans are naturally predisposed to want to seek and consolidate power for themselves. Right?

Latasha Morrison
Yes.

Sharon McMahon
Like that is something that humans will naturally try to do. And democracy requires that we guard against it, that we guard against the corrupt consolidation and seeking of power. So these are the kinds of things that we all have to pay attention to. It doesn’t matter if you live in Tennessee or not, I don’t live there. But to me, this is a very, very important moment in United States history. We truly do stand at the precipice between you know, where we have to decide which way will we turn? Will we turn towards democracy or away from it? Will we turn towards authoritarianism or towards democracy? And if we want to maintain our system of democracy, if we want a system that is based on equality, we want a system that is based on the rule of law, if we want a system that is based on justice, we cannot afford to look away when things like this happen. We can’t afford to just be like, “You know what? Sometimes that happens.” That’s exactly how power continues to be corrupted and consolidated. We have to hold power to account. So we all have to care about this.

Latasha Morrison
Yeah, yeah. That’s so good. Sharon, I would love for you…because, you know, sometimes I really as I’m out there and seeing different things. I really believe, because we’ve gotten, we’re seeing so many things that are so far from democracy. I want you to redefine, define that, not redefine it, but define what democracy is. Because I feel like we’ve forgotten. Because, I mean, there’s some things that has happened in our country. Especially you know, just as recent as everything the insurrection on January 6th. I would love for you just to explain what does democracy mean? And what does it mean to each, you and I? You know?

Sharon McMahon
Yeah, so democracy, here’s the thing. Maybe you’ve heard this before, but people tell this to me all the time. “We don’t have a democracy, we have a constitutional republic.” I hear people say that all the time. Right? And just to kind of get that this part out of the way, a constitutional republic is a structure of government, that, by definition, is democratic. You cannot have a constitutional republic without democracy. And that is because a democracy in the original Greek is just a government of the people. That is the foundation of what democracy means. Now, if you start thinking about the principles of democracy, which is something that I think is very important for Americans to sort of absorb, hide in their hearts. Because to me, understanding the principles of democracy allow you to be an educated voter, they allow you to be an educated consumer, we need to know what these things are. So just to make it very, very, you know, simple and easy to remember, one of the things that I think is, you know, I try to break it down to like five different things.

Latasha Morrison
Okay.

Sharon McMahon
The first one is fair and free elections and the peaceful transfer of power. The peaceful transfer of power is unique to democracies. You know, think about like, you know, kings, they didn’t…how did you get a different king? Well you killed the other one, right?

Latasha Morrison
Okay, okay.

Sharon McMahon
You seized power, you seized power. In a democracy there is no seizure of power, there’s a peaceful transfer of power. If you want to be in power you have to win, to win a fair and free election. The second thing I think is important to remember is protection of civil rights. Civil rights are guaranteed to people in our democracy. They’re protected by the Constitution, they’re protected by other federal laws. And examples of civil rights are things like the right to be free from unlawful discrimination, the right to vote. So protection of civil rights, even if they are not your civil rights, are a very important component of democracy. And that civil rights are protected for everyone, they are not protected just for people who are part of the dominant group.

Latasha Morrison
Right.

Sharon McMahon
The third thing is equality of persons. So that’s a fancy way of just saying equality. People are equal. And we have the rule of law. We do not have a group that is above the law. We do not have a group where, “Well, the leaders don’t have to follow the laws, but everybody else does.” You think about fascist systems, leaders don’t Have to follow the laws everyone else does. In a democracy, we do not have some citizens that have to follow the laws and some citizens that don’t. Everyone does, including the leaders. So holding leaders to account, holding power to account is an important part of a well functioning democracy. And I know people are gonna listen to this and be like, “But we don’t do that perfectly!” We don’t do it perfectly, we absolutely do not. These are just the bedrock principles to which we should aspire. Right? So the fourth thing is consent of the governed and limited government. There are things the government can not do, that it does not have the power to do. And the government exists because, again, the power of the government comes from the people. So we think about limited government, meaning that there are things that the government is prohibited by law from restricting. We think about things like they’re prohibited by law from restricting your freedom of religion. The government is limited. Think back to England, where when the monarch changed, the religion of the country had to change.

Latasha Morrison
Wow.

Sharon McMahon
It was Protestant, Catholic, Protestant, Catholics. You had to align with the monarch. A limited government does not allow the government to make those kinds of rules about, you know, religion is just one example of many. And then the last thing is checks and balances and the separation of powers. This speaks to this thing that I was just talking about that humans naturally seek to want to consolidate power. They naturally seek to want to gain power for themselves. Humans are naturally kind of selfish. And on the other side, humans can be amazing and unselfish. But we all know this natural human tendency of like absolute power corrupts absolutely. So those checks and balances and separation of powers keeps power from being consolidated in the hands of a despot, consolidated in the hands of somebody who wants to rule the country with a tyrannical iron fist. So we spread power out, so one person does not become an authoritarian dictator. So those are sort of my, you know, high level principles of democracy, that we have equality, we have fair and free elections, we have the rule of law, we have a peaceful transfer of power, we have things like separation of power, checks and balances, and limited government.

Latasha Morrison
Right. So good. Thank you so much. You took us to school. And this is why those things, this is a part of a democracy. And I as an African American am part of that democracy.

Sharon McMahon
That’s right.

Latasha Morrison
So this is why we’ve had to have the Civil Rights Movement, and you know, amendments to our Constitution to be inclusive of persons of color, and specifically me as an African American speaking to that. And I was just watching this documentary called Lowndes County. And I don’t know if you’ve seen it, it’s on, it’s either on Hulu or Prime, on one of those streaming channels. But it talks about there’s this county in Alabama, that after the Voting Rights Act was passed, there were still communities, especially rural communities in the south, who still did not allow people to vote. Or they would discourage you from voting, because if you worked on their farm, if you were a sharecropper, it was like a form of oppression that you would not vote. Or if you voted you had to vote for, you know, their candidate, or you couldn’t also run for office. And so Lowndes County is really, really about how, when you say, Black Power came to be, where that movement started there that we don’t hear about. And so as I’m listening to you, and as you explain this, you know, a lot of us when we see that it’s not happening, what is our role? What are things that we can do, to be heard? I see, like, you know, I’m looking at historically, you know, people have marched. People have organized. But I think what is happening, even in our community, as I’m talking to different Be the Bridge leaders across the country, sometimes they get so fearful that they’re stuck. And there are a lot of people that are listening now they see this or either they’re in denial that what they’re seeing it couldn’t be. Because we can, you know, we can kind of be deflecting because of our denial. What can people do to really make sure that mistakes that we make will not have grave consequences over the years? I look back and I see that throughout our country where we’ve done that. You know, I think about the Hayes Compromise; that was a grave mistake for our country. You know, it set us back so many years. No telling where we can be in 2023 if that decision had not been made. But what are some things? Let’s motivate people. I want to see people move, I want to see people, like, give us some marching orders. What can we do to make our voices heard? And not just be reactive but proactive. And not just waiting for something to happen before we get in a, you know, before we move.

Sharon McMahon
Totally. I love this question. Because the answer is that there are many things that we can do. And I want to encourage people to think about that not all of us are meant to do the same thing. And so when we think about how big the problems are, they seem overwhelming. And they get, and we we feel stuck by like, “I can’t fix poverty. Like how am I supposed to sit here and just like fix poverty, that’s too big of a problem.” Right?

Latasha Morrison
Right.

Sharon McMahon
I can’t fix that entire thing. So we then tend to do nothing. So one of the things I want people to think of is it number one, if the problem seems to big and you feel overwhelmed, you need to make the problem smaller. You need to bring the problem down to a level that you feel that you can do even one thing about. If I can show up in one way, think about what can I do for one person that I wish that I could do for everybody? Or what can I do for one organization that I wish that I could do for everybody. So make the problem smaller; start with your local community. Don’t try to get out there and be like, “Me alone, I’m fixing poverty.” Because you are gonna fail. And then you’re gonna give up. And nobody, you’re gonna make no positive change in the world.

Latasha Morrison
Right.

Sharon McMahon
So that’s the first thing. It is absolutely not just expected, but it is desirable that we should all use our own gifts in different ways as part of this movement. Some of us are gifted speakers, some of us are gifted writers, some of us are good at organization. Some of us are great at baking cookies to keep people fed. Some of us are really, really, we have tons of money. Some of us have huge social media platforms. So we all have a different role. And that is, they are all needed. So don’t feel like because I’m not as good as that person, I shouldn’t take part. “I’m not as good a writer as Latasha is, I can’t possibly lend my voice.” All of our voices are needed. So all that to say, don’t get bogged down in the problem being too big and other people being better at it than you are. We need all of us to move things, move the ball down the field, so to speak. So the first thing I would say to people is becoming educated on this topic is the foundation of being able to take action on it.

Latasha Morrison
So good.

Sharon McMahon
If you were a heart surgeon, you have to know the intricacies of the human heart so well before you can operate on it. Right? Before you can make any changes to it, you have to know it inside and out. So first of all, educating ourselves so that we know what the ideals are inside and out. And we can easily recognize when there is a problem. That’s what you know, a physician is able to do, they’re able to say, “This heart is not working properly. And here’s why.” Because they know it’s so intricately. So educating ourselves on the principles of democracy, I think are an important thing. The second thing is being willing to let go of partisanship when it comes to things like democracy. A lot of times people become very wedded wit to this idea that, “I am, you know, a blue voter.” “I’m a red voter.” And in reality, if we don’t have democracy, it doesn’t matter what letter is behind somebody’s name. It does not matter if that person feels the same as you do on abortion. It does not matter if we don’t have democracy. So the principles of democracy must come before any party allegiance, any allegiance to a candidate, any allegiance to a preferred policy; the highest allegiance must be to democracy itself when it comes to politics in the United States. And if we have a candidate who is, you know, saying the things we want to hear, but does not uphold the principles of democracy that I just laid out for us, then they are not a candidate that is worthy of leadership in this country. So educating ourselves and voting for people for whom democracy is a very high priority. Those are also key things that we can do. But speaking to some, you know, non political things. It seems very overwhelming to think about like, “But I called my Representative and nothing happened.” Right? “I called and nothing happened!” I was recently in Washington, DC for the State of the Union. And I visited a number of congressional offices. And I asked everybody that worked in those offices. “How many calls and letters does it take for you to feel like, dang, people care about this issue?” You know, like, what’s the threshold for you to start feeling like, “We got some pushback on this topic.” All of them said, “It’s somewhere in the neighborhood of if we got 200 calls or letters on something that would be like an emergency crisis about that topic.” And I was like, “You mean to tell me that 200 people, that’s the threshold for lighting a fire under you? It’s 200 people?” And you know, like in a short period of time, like we can come up with 200 people. Right? Like we can come up with 200 people just by posting about it on social media, talking about it in our schools or churches or clubs or however we know people; the people that we know, we know two hundred people. We can create systemic change with enough people being willing to call and email and write to the people that represent them in Congress. So 200 people to me is a very eye opening number. Now, it doesn’t mean that that one person in Congress or one person in your legislature is going to unilaterally be able to swoop in and be like, “I fixed it.”

Latasha Morrison
Right, right. Yeah.

Sharon McMahon
You know what I mean? But that number of people multiplied around the country, that is a tiny number of Americans, actually. That’s a tiny number of Americans creating a huge amount of systemic change. So you think, again, stop thinking about the problem as this problem that is insurmountable and start thinking about, like, “What is the next thing I can do? Can me and my friends mobilize 200 people to call this individual?” You probably can, you probably can. So that’s another option. But the other thing that I think is really important to do is to continue your own individual advocacy for things.

Latasha Morrison
So good, Sharon.

Sharon McMahon
Because even if you feel like nothing is happening, even if you feel like, “I called, I wrote, I voted, I ran for office, I donated money.” Even if you feel like, “I have done all of the things.” Hopelessness in this top in this topic of equality, hopelessness in this topic of amending some of the, righting some of the wrongs in this country, hopelessness is an option we cannot afford. We cannot afford to be hopeless.

Latasha Morrison
So good.

Sharon McMahon
We must maintain hope in the face of adversity.

Latasha Morrison
Yes!

Sharon McMahon
We must maintain hope in the face of insurmountable obstacles. Because otherwise, nothing will change. Most of the Civil Rights Movement, Latasha, we’re talking about women. We’re talking about teenagers. We’re talking about church secretaries. We’re talking about people, many of whom did not finish high school, who kept going, who kept going, no matter the obstacles. And we have that exact same ability, and we have far more tools now than they did 60 years ago. We have far more resources, more tools, we can keep going just like our ancestors kept going in the face of incredible odds. And it is the only way that change will happen is we have to just decide, “I don’t have the luxury of being hopeless. That is a price that I cannot pay.” You know, like Bryan Stevenson says, “Hope is not a feeling. It is an orientation of the spirit.” It is an orientation of the spirit that we must choose to remain hopeful in the face of incredible odds. So to me, it is always thinking about, you know, all of those things and always realizing that we each have our own unique individual place in this tapestry, and embracing what yours is. It’s not your problem to fix alone, but it doesn’t mean you get to do nothing.

Latasha Morrison
Yeah, so good. You’re like, all in our Be the Bridge talk. I mean, this is the things that we say all the time. Do your part, it’s not the whole part. We’re only a part of the solution. And I think even when I recount the story of starting Be the Bridge, it was like this problem was so overwhelming for me.

Sharon McMahon
Yes.

Latasha Morrison
You know? When you start talking about justice and you start talking about the history of that, and where this goes back to, I couldn’t even get my head around that. But my commitment was, I’m going to do the things that I know to do or the things that I can do.

Sharon McMahon
That’s right.

Latasha Morrison
And those were have conversations. And just looking at my, what people say, “Your Judea,” you know, your community starting there. And then committing to that and being faithful to that. This is the fruit that we’re looking at now, you know, having Be the Bridge groups in every state, you know, some type of engagement in every state in our country and also internationally. Now if I started out saying, “Okay, I’m gonna do this in every state.” I would have stopped. (laughter) Because I didn’t have the tools to do that. I didn’t have the tools to do it. But connecting with other people and other tools and other resources allowed it to grow. So what what you’re saying, you guys do not miss what she’s saying. Because I hear so many people that are getting overwhelmed. And so they’re getting stuck, or they’re paralyzed to this point where they’re not doing anything. And we can’t afford not to do anything. And I think this is just so good. And I love how you talk about principle over party. You know? Because some of the things I’m thinking like, I don’t care, who’s…most of this stuff, you know, when you start talking about green and blue, look, I can’t even say it. (laughter) Blue and red. But I’m just saying like green, whatever affiliation or party you’re affiliated with, those things are meaningless at the end of the day.

Sharon McMahon
They are.

Latasha Morrison
You know what I’m saying? Like, it’s gonna burn. And so really making sure that principle over party is an important model for you. Now, one of the things in our organization. And I don’t know how much you know about Be the Bridge, I don’t know if you’ve read the book, but we value truth. And truth is like, I mean, it has become watered down in a lot of ways. And we know that the work that we do is grounded in truth. But it seems like a lot of people cannot, in this country, can’t agree what the truth of our country, the truth of a lived experience of a person of color. So maybe we can talk a little bit about, you know, when we start talking about the banning of books. I’m not going to get into details of like, all the books that are being banned. But there’s just a couple that just caught my eye. And I’m like, “Wow.” The Ruby Bridges one that just, you know, the movie, the book. Caste. Just some of the ones that really relate to our racial history here. Those are the things that it’s like, why are we doing this? Why do you think people are afraid of children learning hard things? And then why did they think all of these things are just gonna come from a library when we have access to all of this online? But I know the first introduction depends on where you live, everybody doesn’t have the same resources. So that first introduction, sometimes, you know, is at school. But I remember growing up, this is not, in North Carolina, we didn’t really learn full American history. And I want to say full American history because Black history is American History.

Sharon McMahon
Yes it is. That’s right.

Latasha Morrison
Indigenous history is American history. You know, so anyway. What are your thoughts on that? (laughter)

Sharon McMahon
Well, I totally agree. I didn’t grow up learning, in northern Minnesota, you know, we had a couple of lessons in February. We may like, “Oh, let’s talk about Booker T. Washington.” You know, like, maybe there were a couple little extra things. But it was mostly about George Washington. And, you know, that’s. I totally agree with you that I had that experience as well, that I was not taught the full breadth of American history, until I became an adult. And I think that’s a very common experience in the United States today. The good news is we can become educated on this. And I think there is a strong movement in your community, in my community, where we want our children to grow up better than we have. We don’t want to be a 34 year old adult, where you’re like, “What? I have never heard of Ida B. Wells before.”

Latasha Morrison
I know, right.

Sharon McMahon
You know, you don’t want to be that person. Right? You want your kids to grow up knowing the truth. So I do think that…I mean, first of all, there is a long history in the United States of trying to ban books. That is not a new thing. And it has never been on the right side of history. Movements to ban books has never been on the right side of history. It has always been associated with dictators, with white supremacists; it has always been associated with Nazis; it has always been associated with segregationists. There has never been a time that we can point to where we’re like, “That was a really smart move and it made things better.” Right, so historically speaking, banning books has never worked out. And the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. So, it’s never worked out. First of all, there are going to be books that have ideas that you don’t like. I promise you. There already are. There already are. There are already books that I’m like, “I do not know about that.”

Latasha Morrison
Right. (laughter)

Sharon McMahon
You know what I mean? Like that’s not usual. Welcome to living in a democracy. So that is, the idea, though, that some things must be kept hidden from our children. That is the idea that is very, very problematic. It’s not that the children will never encounter something that they disagree with. They will. They will encounter something that they disagree with. The idea that, first of all, children cannot absorb complicated or difficult things is patently false. It is a very privileged take on the world that children must be, we must protect them from things that are difficult. “We don’t want them to think about things that are difficult.” That is a privilege that has only been afforded to certain groups. Right? Other groups have never had the luxury of saying the children can’t know about hard things. So that is first of all, the idea that children have to be kept from knowing the reality of history just is rooted in privilege. We have to understand that. Secondly, children actually are capable of understanding age appropriate, challenging concepts. Note, first of all, let’s just put on the table. Nobody is saying get your kids a subscription to playboy. Nobody’s advocating for that, right? 

Latasha Morrison
Right, right.

Sharon McMahon
Like that’s on the table here. We’re talking about teaching about real Americans, real events, things that actually happened. These are things that children are made better by wrestling with. You cannot learn critical thinking without being confronted with ideas you disagree with. There’s no critical thinking in hearing something you already believe. There’s no critical thinking involved in that. You’re just parroting back what you already, what you already think. If you want to raise critical thinkers, they have to be confronted with difficult things, difficult moral dilemmas, difficult events from the past. That actually improves their ability to think critically, to be empathetic to others, to understand the impact of actions throughout the world. “When we do x, this is what’s happened in the past. We can’t do x again.” Trying to hide those kinds of things from children only has a detrimental effect. I have talked to so many people. And when I say so many, I mean hundreds of people, who grow up to be adults who realized that, “I have never learned any of this stuff,” who feel robbed, who feel lied to, who feel cheated, and it has not made them better to not know the full account of American history. Children are more capable than we realize. And there are many many benefits to learning the truth and no benefits to learning lies.

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Latasha Morrison
And I think it stokes fear. You know? And one of the things that I’ve seen in just all the trainings that we do and the talks that we do, if I had $5 for every time someone said, “I never knew that,” or “I wish I had known that.” Because it gives, the truth gives people context to a lot of the gaps and the brokenness. And it helps it make sense to them, like, “Oh, my goodness.” And just when you look on the faces of people, regardless of you know, if this is a Person of Color or a white person, it’s like, “I knew I wasn’t crazy,” or “I’m so glad I know this.”

Sharon McMahon
Totally.

Latasha Morrison
And I will never forget an eighty, she was in her eighties. She came up to me. And she caught my attention. She was in this training, and she caught my attention because she had a cell phone. She had an Apple cell phone, and she was like, doing something on it. And I was just, like, impressed, like, “I want to be her at eighty.” And she came up to me at the end of the class, and she grabbed my hand. And I didn’t know what was going to happen. So many things went through my head. I was like, “What if she hits me?” “What am I gonna do?” I’m telling you, I think like this. I think like this. She grabbed my hand and she said, “Thank you.” And she said, “Thank you for telling me this. I wish I would have known.” And she was just really passionate about this. She was saying things that she heard she had never heard. And it makes so much sense where she had been disconnected, of course, living in homogenous circles and communities, there was just information and context she was she was missing. And her knowing this information was going to make her better, because of it.

Sharon McMahon
Totally. Yes, yes. It doesn’t mean, here’s the thing about knowing the truth of history, you’re not going to like it. Okay, let me just tell you right now. There are some good stories. There’s some touching stories. There’s some cats rescued by a firefighter. You know, like, sure those things happen. But by and large, you are not going to like it, but you are going to be glad that you know it. You are going to be better for having learned it. I don’t know anybody who has studied these topics in depth who’s like, “Gee, I sure am sorry I know the truth.” I’ve never had those words spoken to me. “I sure am sorry I learned the truth.” No, you can’t build pride on a lie. Right? Like if we want to be proud of our country, if we want to be, you know, proud to be Americans, that can’t be predicated on a lie. We need to know the truth so that we can actually build from here. So knowing the truth is important. And you know, when you look at the list of books that are getting banned in school libraries, some of them seem so innocuous. It’s like, Who is Michelle Obama? You know, it’s just like a little children’s biography for like a fourth grader. Do you know what I mean? There’s no, there’s no subverse, there’s no like overthrow the government kind of messages or this book? You know what I mean? It’s like, Who is Sonia Sotomayor? These are actually two books that were actually both banned. She is a Hispanic Supreme Court justice. But that’s a person that we all should know who that is. Right? These are little children’s biographical books that are being banned for Lord only knows what reason. But it’s short sighted.

Latasha Morrison
Yes. Well we know what reason. We know what reason. (laughter)

Sharon McMahon
We know what reason. But I don’t know what reason they use to justify it. Like, what is your reasoning you’re going with here?

Latasha Morrison
Yes. And I will say the reason is racism. You know, we’re creating this system. Because if you’re not banning all the books by the Supreme Court judges, and you’re only banning the ones where People of Color, that’s, I mean, it’s just so overt right now. Before, you know, when we talked about racism, it was more covert. But it’s like, you’re, I mean, just, I was just listening to a clip of something that was on a news station. And it was this rant. And it was like, laced in racism. It was like a comment that was made back in the 50s. And people are ignoring it. You know? I’ve seen it. I’ve seen people, you know, these things get ignored where someone said this. This person gets dropped from every newspaper, and someone else tweeted it out and said, “I don’t see a lie in what this person said.” And you know, the government is still doing business with this person. And I’m just like, you know. And I take it personal because a lot of it is attacks on my community. One of the things that I saw, and I know we’re gonna have to wrap up in a little bit. But I wanted to hear…you said, “After a white supremacist terror attack at the grocery store in Buffalo last year.” So much has happened. You know, we’ve had so many violet attacks in our country that some things feel like it happened five years ago, when it just happened last year.

Sharon McMahon
I know.

Latasha Morrison
Buffalo seems so distant. That poor community. There’s so much that has happened there, even just this year alone with the snowstorms and everything. But in the post you said, “I don’t care which political party you belong to, it is your job to reject racism in your party.”

Sharon McMahon
That’s right.

Latasha Morrison
And you say, “Anti-racism is something we all have to commit to doing.” And I agree. It’s like this veil has been uncovered. And it’s like, it’s almost in trend to be racist again, where before there was like some shame to it. And before where, you know, fighting racism and discrimination was more of a bipartisan thing. Now you can see the split straight down, you know, party lines. And I don’t care what party you belong to, it is your responsibility to reject it and to commit to it. Why do you feel so passionate about that? And why do you know that that is the right thing for all Americans to do?

Sharon McMahon
Well, first of all, racism is wrong. Right? So it’s wrong. So it’s morally wrong. So it should be your job to reject morally wrong things from your political party. If it’s not your job to reject the morally wrong things from your political party, whose job is it? Like, it’s your party. (laughter) You picked it. It is your job.

Latasha Morrison
Right, right.

Sharon McMahon
So it is your job. Secondly, this is an example of how the need to fix something is our collective responsibility. I cannot be on this podcast and be like, “Well, I fixed it. I fixed the racism.” You know what I mean? Like maybe somebody will have a little change of heart. But we’re not going to end this today be like, “Well, it’s been fixed.” You know what I mean?

Latasha Morrison
Right, right, right.

Sharon McMahon
This is not just my job. It’s not just your job. We’re out here doing, we’re working hard on it. But the idea that this is all of our job, this is our collective responsibility that we must all commit to. Racism has never led us to a destination worth going to. It has never led us to a destination worth going to.

Latasha Morrison
Say it again for the people in the back, Sharon!

Sharon McMahon
Never! It’s not taking us anywhere we want to go. It’s not cute. It’s not pretty. There’s not a picnic area. There is literally nothing there worth visiting. And we all have to collectively be like, “We are not going there. We’re not going there. We’re not going on that journey. It’s just a no for me. Level 10 out of 10. It’s not happening.” So this idea that sometimes racism is okay. Sometimes, you know, like, oh, well, we don’t want to rock the boat too much. That tends to be a feeling that people think, “Oh, I don’t want to get attacked. I don’t want to get attacked if I say something.” Guess what? You are going to get attacked.

Latasha Morrison
Exactly.

Sharon McMahon
You will be attacked. You will. It has happened to me every time I posted about it, I’ve gotten attacked. Doesn’t matter what I say, how nicely I say it. People are going to say something to you. Say it anyway. Say it anyway. Lay your head on the pillow at night, knowing that you did right. And if somebody attacked you for doing right, then you can go to sleep with a clear conscience. Right? You can go to sleep knowing that you did right and the other person did wrong. It’s just never, it has never been a good idea. And it remains not a good idea.

Latasha Morrison
Yeah, yeah.

Sharon McMahon
Yeah, it is, it’s a little…you know, that post that I put up about Buffalo, about the the Buffalo mass shooter. He had, you know, sort of this manifesto where he was talking about replacement theory. That there are People of Color coming to replace the “rightful” Americans, and I’m saying that in air quotes, the “rightful” Americans.

Latasha Morrison
Right.

Sharon McMahon
I literally earlier today, Latasha, saw somebody on Twitter, a video of a legislator, I believe it was the state of Kansas, it was either Kansas or Nebraska, talking about how this state has not had any population growth except for all of the immigrants that are moving here. He’s essentially saying all of the Brown people that are moving here, the white people’s population has not been growing. And that’s exactly what replacement theory looks like. That the white people are being “replaced,” again, air quotes by People of Color. He’s not going to go on TV and say, like, “Hello, I’m here to speak to you about replacement theory.” Right? You know, like, it’s coded.

Latasha Morrison
Right, right.

Sharon McMahon
And once you learn the code, you will recognize it wherever it is. So this idea that people from certain countries, that other you know, some politicians refer to it by negative names, I won’t repeat on this podcast. I’m sure you can figure out what they are. The idea that some people are valuable and other people are less valuable is replacement theory, and that we should encourage the valuable people to be here. That’s an idea that we have to just reject outright. It has never lead us anywhere we want to go.

Latasha Morrison
Yeah, because even someone’s definition of who’s valuable and who’s not. You know, history always gives an account. And as we say in this work, history keeps receipts. And there’s going to be a lot of history that’s not going to be favorable to people of things that you’re not going to want kids to learn about in history. Because we have a record account, more so now than we did then of things that are being said, things that are being posted, tweeted, written about, books that are being written. Like people are saying these things boldly now. And it’s contributing to things like, you know, this mass shooter, murderer, in Buffalo. It’s contributing to those ideologies. And some of these ideologies are not just, you know, in a person like him that’s considered a white supremacist, but these things are in some of the highest place of governments where they’re saying the exact same things, holding political office saying the exact same thing, but saying it not with a gun in hand, but with a suit on.

Sharon McMahon
And with a microphone.

Latasha Morrison
And with a microphone. And with a microphone. And I think, you know, a lot of people who are listening now, they’re overwhelmed with what was happening in politics. I always tell people, listen, the work that we do is about politics, because politics is about people. You know? It doesn’t have to be partisan. We’re making it partisan. It should be bipartisan. But the work that we do, politics are about people. And I hear this a lot where people are always saying, you know, “We don’t want to get political. We don’t want to get political.” And I’m like, everything that has been done to People of Color in this country has been done politically. It’s been done through policy. So the undoing of that also will have to come through policy. And I would hope it could be bipartisan, but that is not something that we’re seeing the fruit of in this very tensious time within our country. And so there are people that are just overwhelmed. They really want to give up. What would you say? What encouragement would you have for our Be the Bridge community when they hear things like this? I think people were a little encouraged to see these young men being able to stand firm in their belief systems and making it about people that happened in Tennessee. And we know that there are people like that all over this country. And I think people were inspired by them. And so you know, what are some encouragement that you have and steps to take for the Be the Bridge community?

Sharon McMahon
Sometimes when I feel overwhelmed, and I bet you can relate to this. Right? Like, sometimes you’re like, “I just don’t know if I can keep doing this.”

Latasha Morrison
Yeah.

Sharon McMahon
“I do not know.” It can be a lot. You know like, “Who am I to do this?” I have this, you know, this sort of refrain echoes in my mind sometimes, which is that it’s not the equipped that are called. The people who are called are equipped.

Latasha Morrison
Yes.

Sharon McMahon
And the people who are called are all of us. Right?

Latasha Morrison
Right.

Sharon McMahon
And we can and will be equipped to do this work. It is not the people who are equipped that are being called. It is the called who will be equipped. So, there are ways that we can equip ourselves. We’ve talked about some of them on this show today. But just keep reminding yourself of that. That you do not need to be equipped to day. Your capacity today might be really small. Your capacity today might be calling a friend and saying, “The world’s been heavy lately. I wanted to check in on you. How are you doing?”

Latasha Morrison
Right, right.

Sharon McMahon
That might be your capacity today. But as you become more equipped, your capacity can increase incrementally. It’s just like you were saying, Latasha. If you had said, “Well, you’re gonna have people in every single state.” You’d be like, “Well, I don’t know. I don’t know if I can do it.”

Latasha Morrison
I tap out. I quit. (laughter)

Sharon McMahon
Yeah, “That’s too much. I’m not trying to…that’s too much.” But you didn’t start this journey with this idea of like, “Well, I’m equipped. I got all the answers.” You were called and your capacity has increased as you have become more and more equipped to do this work. Your capacity can increase as you learn and as you change and as you grow and as you mature and as you meet more people. And as you realize, “Well, that didn’t work, I’m going to try this other thing.” Your capacity is not a static thing. It can grow and it can become bigger than you ever imagined. Again, going back to the leaders of the Civil Rights Movement, they did not come out of their mother’s womb being like, “Well, I am equipped. I got it.” No, they had a calling. And they became equipped as they lived out their calling. Right? They did not learn how to do these things as tiny children. No one was educating them on how to make massive political change in the United States. Because it had never been done before. They had to invent it. Right? They had to invent it. They were called. And then they became equipped as they lived out there calling. So do not feel discouraged if your capacity today is small. We will use whatever your capacity is. Maybe you just gave birth to twin babies and you’re like, “I slept one hour last night, my capacity is really, really small.” That is okay. Your capacity will change as those babies get bigger. And you can start taking your children to events and you can start teaching your children, and your ability and your capacity will grow. So start where you are and realize you don’t actually need to be equipped. You have been called and your capacity will increase as you do the work.

Latasha Morrison
Yeah. And I can say I’m a living witness of that. You know? And so many others that are doing this work. We’re doing our small portion of it. There’s a lot of ways to do this work. This is only one way. And there’s no right way. You know? And so I think, you know, the thing is we always tell people is to do something. I say if you have breath in your body, you can do something.

Sharon McMahon
Something.

Latasha Morrison
Yes, something.

Sharon McMahon
That’s right.

Latasha Morrison
And you can start somewhere. Start somewhere. And so, you know, and we always tell people start with yourself and then start with your family. Start with your community. And just kind of work your your way out. Just take it like one step at a time, one step at a time. But just make sure you’re not sitting on the sidelines because we are moving this ship. We’re gonna move this ship. We’re not giving up. And you know how I think I heard one of the young men said, “You’ve woken a sleeping giant.” But listen, let me tell you, none of us have been asleep. (laughter) The writing has been on the wall for some time. And I think some of the tears that people cried back in 2015 and 2016, that we saw a shift coming. And so we’re dealing with that. And so what, as we close now, what is something, I like to ask this question – what is something, Sharon, that’s giving you hope right now? What is something that is giving you hope? And then also what is something that’s bringing you joy?

Sharon McMahon
You know, one of the things that always brings me hope, is learning about history. There are so many, of course, there’s terrible events that have happened in history. But there is, you know, a great cloud of witnesses of people who have done and overcome extraordinary things that are waiting for us to be, you know, as our community that we can look to. If we don’t have the community in our own lives, in our own organizations, there is no shortage of people who have done extraordinary things in history. And I read their stories, and I am just like, “Dang, I don’t even know if I have that amount of courage. I don’t know if I have that courage.” And it gives me hope that there are people who have done more, risen farther, been more courageous than any opportunity I’ve ever been given to be a part of it. So history brings me hope, because I see exactly how much of a difference a single individual can make. So I love that.

Latasha Morrison
That’s so good.

Sharon McMahon
I love reading about how one person has impacted the world. So and one thing that is bringing me joy, oh of course, I always have joy in my own children and my own dogs and my own, you know, little house in the woods. Those are always things that make me happy. But one of the things that brings me joy on a regular basis is the governerd community. I love seeing people’s first response is: “How can we help? What can we do? Where can we donate? Who should we call? You know, like seeing the motivation of, you know, over a million people who are like, “I am going to be the change,” that to me, it brings me joy. It brings me joy to see how many people actually want to be part of the solution and to show up and to do the work and to be the bridge. I love it.

Latasha Morrison
I love it. I love it. And we are an equipping organization, just like yourself. You’re equipping people with context, with history, with facts, with knowledge, that’s going to bring about change. And that’s what we do. So we are partners in this.

Sharon McMahon
Yes!

Latasha Morrison
Thank you so much for joining us today.

Sharon McMahon
My pleasure!

Latasha Morrison
Expect to hear from us even more. Because this is working, you know, and it’s happening, you know, one person at a time, one group at a time. But we see a lot of fruit from this work. And I think that’s what some of this resistance is about when we look at some of the reverting back, is because there’s a fear of a loss of power. Because people are more knowledgeable. And we do have more access to information. And we are, you know, we are more convicted when we think about like, you know, we are just some of the basic biblical principles of loving your neighbor as yourself. Like that right there alone, just that statement, loving your neighbor as yourself. And it doesn’t say which neighbor. Things that are happening now should be very convicting to those of us that call ourselves Christians. And so I’m thankful for your voice. I’m thankful for all that you’re doing on social media and using it for good. I always say that, you know, there’s a lot of different ways to use social media. And I see time and time again people who are using social media for good, to educate, to bring about restoration, to lift up, to empower. And I see that’s what you’re doing, Sharon. So thank you so much, sister for being in this work and for using your voice and for speaking the truth and speaking facts, and even in the midst of fear of what people will say, comments people will make, that you’re still going to speak the truth. And I think that’s the thing. We have to keep going. We cannot give up. We got to keep pressing, keep pressing, keep pressing. I keep thinking about this, this keeps coming to mind that Harriet Tubman kept returning to the south. And I’m thinking in my head, I’m like, I don’t know once I had tasted freedom, I don’t know if I could have gone back. But that means that enslavement was so horrifying, that she was willing to risk her life, time and time again, for the freedom of others. And so we have to keep going. You know, this gun violence, all of that is, these are tough things that we’re having to deal with in our society. But we have to keep speaking the truth. And keep pressing and keep pushing, and keep pressing and keep pushing each and every day. So thank you so much for joining me.

Sharon McMahon
Thank you!

Latasha Morrison
And it was a pleasure to have you here on the Be the Bridge Podcast.

Sharon McMahon
Likewise.

Latasha Morrison
And we’re gonna have everything is gonna be in show notes. So those of you who are listening, if this is your first time of hearing Sharon McMahon, we’re gonna have all her information. You want to follow her on the social, Instagram, all of these things. And you can take notes and teach it to your children. And make sure that even as people are limiting history that is being taught, that you as a parent, you as an auntie, as a grandparent, you as a friend or neighbor can make sure that the children in your life, the people in your life have access to you’re alive to factual, historical information. And so thank you so much for listening.

Sharon McMahon
Thank you.

Narrator
Thanks for listening to the Be the Bridge Podcast. To find out more about the Be the Bridge organization and or to become a bridge builder in your community, go to BeTheBridge.com Again, that’s BeTheBridge.com. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, remember to rate and review it on this platform and share it with as many people as you possibly can. You can also connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Today’s show was edited, recorded, and produced by Travon Potts at Integrated Entertainment Studios in Metro Atlanta, Georgia. The host and executive producer is Latasha Morrison. Lauren C. Brown is the Senior Producer. And transcribed by Sarah Connatser. Please join us next time. This has been a Be the Bridge production.