Ep 267 | AANHPI Heritage Month: “Tell Me the Dream Again” with Tasha Jun

Narrator  

You are listening to the Be the Bridge Podcast with Latasha Morrison.

Latasha Morrison  

[intro] How are you guys doing today? It’s exciting!

Narrator  

Each week, Be the Bridge Podcast tackles subjects related to race and culture with the goal of bringing understanding.

Latasha Morrison  

[intro] …but I’m going to do it in the spirit of love.

Narrator  

We believe understanding can move us toward racial healing, racial equity, and racial unity. Latasha Morrison is the founder of Be the Bridge, which is an organization responding to racial brokenness and systemic injustice in our world. This podcast is an extension of our vision to make sure people are no longer conditioned by a racialized society but grounded in truth. If you have not hit the subscribe button, please do so now. Without further ado, let’s begin today’s podcast. Oh, and stick around for some important information at the end.

Latasha Morrison  

Okay, Be the Bridge community, I have a special treat. Every week that we have a podcast it’s always a special treat, because these are people that are pouring their life into their work and to their writings or their poetry or to their ministry or to their community, our world. And so today, I have a special treat. And she’s really special because we share the same name. And I don’t know if you’ve heard of her, but you want to go and make sure you follow her. Her name is Tasha Jun. That’s right, I said Tasha Jun. We are the Tashas here today. And so I’m gonna say her name a lot, because I just love my name. And I love her name. And so, Tasha Jun is a Korean American storyteller. Writing has always been the way God has led her toward home and the hope of shalom. She currently writes as a monthly contributor for (in)courage and has been featured in publications such as Relevant Magazine, Fathom Magazine, Home Life Magazine, and The Mudroom. Tasha lives in the greater Indianapolis area with her husband and three children. And she also has a book coming out May the 9th 2023. And it’s called, Tell Me the Dream Again: Reflections on Family, Ethnicity, and the Sacred Work of Belonging. I love that because so much, you know, we talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion. But belonging is such a huge part of that. Because you can have those. And if people don’t feel like they belong, it just does a disservice. And so you can have diversity, but those of you if you have diversity in your organization or your community or your church, you know, ask people who are not the majority, do they feel like they belong there. And I just did this exercise with some students at a high school. And, you know, a lot of the children, you know, a lot of the students stood up and said that they felt like they belonged. But there were a handful, like there were several, that felt like they didn’t. And so you can discount that because you say, “Well, majority of them feel like they belong.” But then you ask the question, why don’t you feel like you belong? You know, why do you feel unseen? Maybe you feel unheard or maybe something has happened? There’s a lot of things underneath that to get underneath that. So I think that’s just a great title. And I know that’s a part of your story of belonging. And tell me a little bit how you came up with that title. And what does belonging mean to you, Tasha?

Tasha Jun  

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I love being with another Tasha. It’s super fun. So I’m really grateful to be here. Yeah, that was good. That was really interesting what you shared about the high school. Just like goes to my heart. Just thinking about those that didn’t feel that and how you can have both in one place. So yeah, I think for me, when I dug a little deeper into some of my own pain, I just kept coming back to that desire to belong and in my story, the places where I struggled to find that or receive that or offer that on the flip side. And so I just kept coming back to that and as a deep feeler, I think I just, I kind of had to stay there for a while. And I think for me, belonging is being able to be in a place or a space, where you are your whole self and where your whole self is welcome to stretch out and also have room to become at the same time. And so, you know, because I think sometimes it’s a process for us, you know, embracing that whole self and bringing it, I guess so. I think there’s more to it. But I think that’s kind of the core of it. Yeah.

Latasha Morrison  

And what was life like growing up as Tasha? And I know your mom, you said, your mom called you, Tasha Jun, and you gave me a little history about that. Could you explain to the audience like a little bit of history about your name?

Tasha Jun  

Yeah. So yeah, the Tasha part was, I mean, that was a little random, Because my parents liked an actress called, I think her name was, Natalie Wood. And her daughter’s name was Natasha. But they didn’t want it. They wanted it to be different, both of them, they kind of both carry that. Born to a Korean mother and a white father. And so they picked Tasha and Jun is just a name that my mom loved. It’s Korean. I didn’t find out until later though that, she said that usually boys were named Jun. And usually there’s more to it, like Jun Ho or Jun you know, another part to it. But again, with that wanting to be different, they just took Jun. And, you know, I have memories of my mom saying it very affectionately, is what she called me when she was being really affectionate, or when she was really mad at me. So, Tasha Jun! So it’s just very much like, dear to me, because of that.

Latasha Morrison  

You know, my name is actually Latasha, but I go by Tasha. And I will tell you, I was born in June, and my grandfather. Now to hear that, like, Jun is a Korean name, but maybe it’s attached to other things. But my grandfather’s name is Jun also. (laughter) It was Jun. But, so really interesting. Names mean something. And I love the fact that, you know, I know growing up I had this distaste for my name, because it was very, you know, what you would say, the best way I could put it, you could identify my ethnicity by my name in some ways. But what I’m learning as I have grown up is like, there’s so many different people named Tasha. Because there actually is, I think, a Russian name like Tasha, and so I meet all types of people with the name Tasha. But when you think about this is the name that your parents gave you, and to be appreciative and just to love that. And I think it means like the birth of Christ or something like that? (laughter) So that was when I was like, “Oh, this is like, significant. I love that.” (laughter) Great, great. Now, tell me a little bit about, did you grow up in Indiana?

Tasha Jun  

I didn’t. I was actually born in California. My dad is from California, and he grew up there. And that is where he and my mom met. And we lived there for a little while, then moved to Wisconsin for a year, and then New York for a year. And then we actually moved to Japan. And that was a big move. Not just because it was overseas, but we lived there for kind of like my formative elementary school years. And that’s when we actually got to travel as a family to Korea. So the first time I ever went to Korea was in the summers throughout those years. And then moved back to California to the city that I was born in. And then right before high school moved to Indiana. So that’s when Indiana came into the picture. And it was a big shock. So yeah, it was a big change.

Latasha Morrison  

The only thing I remember, I’ve been through Indiana, I’ve never been there. I can’t recall. There are places I’ve been that I just can’t remember, I’m telling you. I’m getting older and sometimes I forget things.

Tasha Jun  

(laughter) I get that.

Latasha Morrison  

I just remember going through there, I think we were on our way to Illinois. And there was a snowstorm, and this is probably when I was in college, and there was like a major snowstorm. And they were like, “You can go over here to this restaurant,” when the bus stopped, “or you can go to this restaurant.” Then it was like a mom and pop or McDonald’s. And we were trying to make it to the McDonald’s, which was only probably about 100 yards away. But we could not make it. I had never seen snow come down like that. It was like a blizzard it felt like. And I’m probably over exaggerating. But basically hardly any of us made it. You know, I grew up in North Carolina. We didn’t you know, we would get snow. The weather has changed a lot on the East Coast. So we had winter clothes, but not like that type of winter clothes because that was like an actual blizzard that was coming down. So I don’t know too much about Indiana. But I know you, in your book, you start your book off with the prologue of a story about a friend asking to come over. And before he showed up, you looked around checking the fridge for smells searching to see if things seemed normal. You ended up not letting him in. You said in your book, you said “I’ve come to believe that the narrative that my ethnicity and cultural details would turn people away. At a young age, I learned to believe my Korean normal was embarrassing. A barrier to belonging and the enemy of my deepest longings.” You sharing your story will bring freedom to a lot of people, because a lot of people think this. But they can not articulate it. You know, there’s shame or embarrassment with coming from that. You know, just kind of like what I shared about my name. You know? What are your hopes that you have for this book, as maybe other little girls are reading this that identify with you?

Tasha Jun  

I mean, I think my deepest hope is that readers who come across it will feel seen, will know that they’re not alone. Because I think, as you said, the shame that I think we feel sometimes or that we’re taught to feel about who we are, and then the shame that we feel for feeling those things, because that’s kind of wrapped, you know, can really isolate us. And I think there’s a lot more stories out there now that help. But my deepest hope is that people will feel seen and not alone, because I do think that that gives a doorway to freedom and to feeling like your story can be liberated. And I also just hope that even though I’m writing really specifically about me, I know some people will have really similar experiences, but I hope that being really specific will help people to be specific about themselves, you know, and just just take a look within and be able to see their own values or their own distinctions with value, I should say. And attention, give attention to those things.

Latasha Morrison  

Right. And we take a lot of our really, our self esteem, our confidence, you know, and a lot of times our racial identity from our mom. You know? And I’ve heard Kathy Khang, she has stated before about how her mom came over from Korea with all these beautiful Korean outfits. And she was saying that they were put in this trunk, and she stored them away because she wanted to fit in and wearing those beautiful garments would not allow her to fit in. And so there’s this assimulation process that her mom went through, sometimes in order to thrive or survive. It’s like a lot of times survival. And so sometimes, you know, you don’t teach the language to the next generation, because you don’t want them to be picked on or harassed. You know? What was that like with your mom? Like you said, your mom is Korean American and your father is white. So what was that like? How did your mom like infuse who you are in you? Or if she did?

Tasha Jun  

Yeah, I would say that, so for her and her own experience, when she first came over to the states, it was actually with her first marriage. And that was a very difficult experience. Her first time in the US was very, just really difficult. She did not know any other Koreans. So I mean, almost immediately, when she set foot here, it was like, there was no way for her to express herself. She learned English from watching TV. And so by the time I was born, I think all of that was still very fresh. And I think she did not want me to struggle. And so whether she realized it or not, you know, I mean, she’ll say now, “I tried to teach you Korean, but you didn’t listen.” You know? But I remember as a kid, you know, I think she was still learning English. And she was also wanting me to have everything that she felt like she couldn’t have. And so that was never articulated, but it was very felt. And so my experience was that at home everything was very Korean. The way that she moved the way, the way that she nurtured me with food or cared for me, it was all very Korean. Even bathtime, it was very typical Korean where we had like the nylon washcloth and she scrubbed my back and we bathed together. And I had, there’s a story in the book about how when I realized this wasn’t typical for my non Korean friends. You know? And just how shocking it was for me. And then, I would step out the door…and I feel like she was probably, of my parents, like the the louder one. Or the one, I mean, culturally. And as the mother, I think what you said was really right on. It just was how our home was run. So even if the language wasn’t there, it was very Korean, like down to the core. But then when I would stepped outside, it was a whole nother world. And so I was constantly without even thinking about it stepping out and like, “Okay, I put that away.” So then the thought of having someone come into that was like, “Oh!” This is a whole nother side of me that I don’t bring with me anywhere. Or I try not to at least. So yeah, I really think that was true for her. I think for her it was survival and just not wanting me to go through any of the pain that she went through.

Latasha Morrison  

Thanks for sharing that. Because I know those are tender parts of you, so thanks for sharing that. And hopefully, those that are listening, you know, this may resonate with you. I know, a lot of times when I’m talking to people who are actually identify as biracial…we were just in a, actually another school, and one of our team members who is biracial, because the kids noticed that they had a lot of questions. Like, “How do you navigate both sides of your family? Especially in the tension of the culture?” You know, maybe home is a safe space with your parents, but maybe when you’re visiting grandparents or aunts or uncles or cousins, it’s not so much as a safe space. And trying to navigate that because you love all the parts of you? And they were just really wanting to know, like, “How do you navigate that? Like, how do you navigate being…” This particular person is Black and white. They were saying, “How are you navigating this?” And so that’s important, you know, where you were saying, like, at home was very much so Korean. But when you stepped out the door, it was like you put on a mask almost.

Tasha Jun  

Yeah.

Latasha Morrison  

This is what…I mean, I can relate to that, in a sense as an African American we’ve always had to do that for survival in many ways. So I totally understand exactly what you mean, where, you know, maybe we change our accent or maybe we articulate things a certain way. Or maybe you know, many of us change our names because maybe our names sound more ethnic or it’s a name that’s joked about. So I totally understand. You also say a lot about you didn’t feel completely Korean either that you “have always been caught between two worlds, American and Korean faith and doubt, family devotion and fierce independence.” Could you share a little bit more about what you were feeling unfit as a Korean, but somehow too Korean in some other places?

Tasha Jun  

Yeah. I mean, I think the too Korean is kind of like what we talked about already. And I’m thinking more when we move to Indiana, that was kind of the shocker, where I was in a space for the first time that was predominantly white, where I could count the number of Asians not just in my grade, but in the entire school, on one hand. And I looked for them, you know, just as like, without even thinking about it. And so, I think that was just a really formative time for me, moving here in high school. And so during that time, I think I felt too Korean. My first day of school, I had people coming up to me, and this kind of sums it all up saying, “Are you the new Chinese girl?” “Are you Hawaiin?” “Are you Mexican?” And that’s partially because by being biracial, they couldn’t quite tell because I looked Asian But didn’t fit the stereotype that they had known, which was very slim, you know, inaccurate. But just feeling like gosh, like people have the audacity to come up to me and just ask me these questions and expect me to answer them. So there was that. But then on the flip side, you know, when I was younger and we lived in Japan, the first things I learned to say in Japanese was, “Watashi wa amerikahitodesu.” I’m American. And “Watashi wa kangokujindesu.” And I would say I was Korean. Because they would be confused about when I said I was American, they’re like, “What?!” You know, it isn’t what you expect, someone different with blond hair and blue eyes. And then I would say I’m Korean, and then it was even more confusing. So then the first time we went to Korea, one summer, our first summer there, we were actually looking for my mom’s family. Because she had lost contact with her family and lost family members because of the Korean War. And so we’re looking for her family. And I had just experiences all over the place where, and this is also in the book, but where these high school kids spit on my sister and I. And I didn’t, I had no idea why. And then later my mom had explained to me, “It’s because your dad is white, and they don’t like that you are mixed, and that you’re here.” And I’m like, oh, I’m thinking we’re going home to Korea.

Latasha Morrison  

Wow.

Tasha Jun  

You know, and feeling like oh, I didn’t know there are people here that just hate and kind of have blame, you know, because of what had happened during the war. So I couldn’t understand that as a child. But now, you know, having more context. It’s like, oh, that’s a really complicated feeling like, not, you know, anyway. So there was that. And then also feeling like, oh, they don’t see you as Korean. “They see you as American. You’re my American daughter, and you’re not Korean.” It was just shocking, I think. And then in some Korean American communities, my mom would try to bring us into, my sister and I, and just feeling very much like, oh, we’re not the same. You know? There’s something different here. We can’t speak. I don’t know what they’re talking about. So yeah, just kind of being shocked by that and wondering, oh, so I don’t belong there. But then I don’t really belong here. Nowhere. You know? Yeah.

Latasha Morrison  

And I know people who are listening, many of you can identify with that. You know, African Americans, we can identify that. I’ve been back to Africa, and you know people are like, “Where are you from?” And you say you’re American. Then it’s like, okay, because they think American as white. And so then they find out, they see you as American. But then it’s like, “Okay, where are you from?” And I’m like, “I’m from North Carolina.” (laughter) “But where are your grandparents from?” “They’re also from North Caroline. And we can go back five, six generations.” But that was the longing for me to, because of those questions, was to try to find out. You know? Because I didn’t realize there was a piece of me…so I think, you know, with you going back. We talked about before going to Korea. I just went to Korea with my best friend in October of 2022. And this was a trip that we have planned for a long time. And it was incredible. And now you know, you talking about standing out. (laughter) Tall Black girl with braids, I stood out in Korea. And they made it known that I stood out because everybody was looking. (laughter) But because I prepare myself for that when I go to another country that’s like expected. You know? But no one was really, no one was rude or anything. Like I probably would stare at me, too. (laughter) But especially with the curiosity of the braids and all of that. And so, my friend, she was looking for more people that look like her because she is biracial, African American and Korean. And she didn’t see that. She didn’t, you know, we were trying to find that. She thought she would see she said more people that were biracial. So I don’t know, I think she’s still even processing the trip. You know? And so like, what has it been like for you going back as an adult and maybe taking your children?

Tasha Jun  

Yeah, so we haven’t been back with. So we’ve got two boys and a daughter. And our daughter is actually adopted from Korea.

Latasha Morrison  

Okay.

Tasha Jun  

So the most recent time that I went back as an adult was with my husband was when we brought her home. And our boys have not been yet. And she’s obviously been, because she was born there, but she doesn’t remember much.

Latasha Morrison  

Okay.

Tasha Jun  

So part of wanting to go back is just for all of us. You know? Yeah. But going back as an adult was, I mean, I think it was shocking to me how much had changed from what I remembered as a child. I mean, the country has changed so much. And I didn’t experience any of the negative things I had experienced before. But also I wasn’t with my mom. And so I feel like I was almost a little bit more outside of the communities. I didn’t, you know, step into as many. The trip was different But we’re excited to go in October though. I can’t wait.

Latasha Morrison  

I can’t wait! I mean, it’s a beautiful, it’s a beautiful country. It’s very new. Because you know, the impact of the war and everything. But you know, like one of the things it’s like all the buildings are like shiny and new. I couldn’t find like any trash. They do not litter there. So if you ever go, do not litter there. You will get a ticket. Do not litter. They are serious about that. And everything is just really clean. Very clean. And when you talk about, you know, the smells. Like you were trying to, you didn’t want your friend to smell anything. It’s so funny because like, first of all, I love kimchi. But it’s like going there, I realized that people have – we’re just behind – they have like special refrigeration for the food. So you don’t really, I didn’t smell anything. Like we went to a fish market, it was the cleanest fish market that I had ever gone to in my life. Like, it’s just totally different. So you can see that as a part of the culture image. I don’t really know, you probably know more about it. But I was just really just intrigued that we went to a fish market, and I’ve gone to fish markets with my grandmother, and it did not look like and smell like what I’ve seen. And I tried to capture as much of my visit on video because I like to for people, sometimes we can make assumptions about things and people and groups of people, and we don’t really know until we step in. And so I wanted to record a video so that people can see. You know, so people can see as you travel, like, “Wow, we have a lot in common.” You know, or “We like some of the same things.” So I love to do that. How would you say, you talk a little bit about this in your book, too, how do you feel like the American church has failed to see and embrace your ethnic identity?

Tasha Jun  

Yeah, it’s such a hard question, you know, because I definitely I see myself as part of the American church. And I think looking back on my own journey, I see the places where I was afraid or where I held back. And not that it’s all on me. But I do regret a lot of like that holding in, that hiding. But on the flip side, I think, you know, when I look back from decades ago to just not that long ago, I think there was so much pressure to assimilate, not just in greater culture, American culture, but also especially within the church. And so my experience and you know, I didn’t start going to church regularly until I was in high school. So in Indiana, again, was very much that there was this pressure to assimilate to a white expression of church community. And not just that it was the only way or it was because the majority of people were white, it was, you know, I think I felt that it was the right way to do things. And got that feeling, whether it was explicitly said or just more silent but you feel it so deeply. So I think even like, early on, in my faith journey, I think people would reiterate, people a part of the church or people that were in leadership over me, that my identity was in Christ. And this was often a response to me bringing something up about my ethnicity, like a desire to start working through that, but having no space to do that. And kind of being told that in such a shallow way, like your identity is in Christ, so that doesn’t matter. So then like me for so long thought I was crazy.

Latasha Morrison  

Right, right.

Tasha Jun  

Why is this so hard for me? And so, yeah, I think there’s just such…there can be, there has been, there still is just such a rejection, whether it’s intentional or not, towards curiosity. And just this kind of widespread ignorance when it comes to like learning and receiving history and how that very much matters for our church communities. You know? Yeah. That’s a lot.

Latasha Morrison  

That’s good. I mean, because I’ve heard that, you know, our identity as Christians is in Christ. And so, I would also put that back on, you know, people who are part of, what you would say as the white culture doesn’t see themselves as an ethnicity. And so I think it’s important for. We teach in Be the Bridge to find out those roots. You know? Because you also are part of an ethnicity, and that you also have an identity that shows up very strong in our culture and very strong in Christian culture. You know? We conflict Christian culture with European culture a lot. So a lot of things that we say are Christian culture is really European culture. We call certain names Christian names, and it’s like, “No, Johnny, is not a Christian name.” (laughter) “That’s my baptism name.” “No, that’s your European name.” So, you know, it’s just even stuff like that. That, you know, there’s not one ethnicity, not one culture that can represent the totality of who God is. It takes every nation, every tribe. And I think we have to realize that we are a part of a tribe, we are a part of a nation. And so that helps us not to other other people outside that framework. And I think that’s really important for us to see. What would you say, how can we become better listeners when it comes to the complex stories of the biracial experience?

Tasha Jun  

That’s such a good question. I think one of the biggest things, I think, to kind of just maybe just understand or to know, is that those of us that are biracial or multiracial, we embody this kind of, like non stop both and experience. And we embody this diversity within ourselves. That we see out there, it’s kind of in ingrained. So I think keeping that in mind, while listening to anyone’s story is just really important. And then just beyond that, that we can’t really be categorized when it comes to our own identities and experiences. I think most of us have been asked to pick one, whether that’s like on a census or, you know, even sometimes within our own families, which is very confusing, and then also just in the world wanting to know where allegiance is or something. It’s very strange. So I think knowing that that is kind of what most of us have probably been through in some way or another. But really want, I think, at our core to bring our whole stories. And they’re very different. Just depending on mother, father mix, you know, it’s just really different. But wanting to be able to bring that and tell it ourselves, I think is just a desire and just important.

AD BREAK

Latasha Morrison  

We’re just coming off of a season of award season here and I don’t know if you watch the Oscars or any of the awards leading up to that. And the movie Everything, Everywhere, All at Once. I have not seen it yet. Oh, I’m sorry, I had to admit, I have not seen it. I haven’t seen half of the movies. (laughter)

Tasha Jun  

It’s so hard to keep up!

Latasha Morrison  

It’s so hard to keep up. But, Michelle, I love her. I loved her in several of the movies that she’s played in. But Michelle Yeoh. She just won her first Oscar. And so like, I mean, I think it was the first Asian American woman to ever win an Oscar. And I know, like, even, you know, as an African Americans seeing that, it’s like you’re rooting for anyone that has been on the margins that have never received any.

Tasha Jun  

Yeah.

Latasha Morrison  

I was really, really glad. Because she’s such a, I mean, she is an excellent actress. I mean, in like, just every movie, if you go back to all the movies that she’s played in. I mean, even Crazy, Rich Asians, like, she was like no joke in that movie. And, you know, and I know, what did that feel like to you to see this representation? I know that it’s gonna do a lot for just young Asian American children that are seeing this and maybe, you know, in general, because in America, we just kind of put everybody in one category, although there’s different identities. But we kind of do that. And so it’s kind of like, you know, “We all win!” (laughter) In that sense. But, I mean, what did that feel like for you hearing that she won?

Tasha Jun  

Yeah, I mean, I cried.

Latasha Morrison  

Oh, I love it.

Tasha Jun  

Representation is so important to me. And not just like on the outside, but just, you know, all these layers that are wrapped up in that. I remember, in high school again, the first time I saw Joy Luck Club, and I wrote about this, I wrote an article about this, but just, it broke a dam in me. It was the first time I had ever seen Asian American women on screen, telling their stories in such a vibrant way. And these were Chinese American women. So not even the same, but it was just something. And then their mothers, it was like a mother daughter. And so seeing people that were like my mom, and just some of the struggles that they went through that I had never been able to talk about with anyone ever, never had found a place to talk about any of that, you know, just broke this dam in me. And, you know, I didn’t know the term representation matters then, but I knew that it was life changing. Like it changed something forever. And so I think since then, anytime there’s been anything it’s like, it’s just a lot of joy. And then I think there’s a little bit of grief, too, if that’s not weird to say. Because it’s like, I think, gosh, like my kids are growing up. It’s a little different, better. We have a long way to go. But it’s better. And I feel this grief for all the years of like, just not seeing it. So it’s like a double thing. But when she won, I felt like, I just cried. Because not only she’s been in a ton of movies. I remember going to see Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. It was empty in the theater. I’m like, “Why don’t people know how amazing this is?”

Latasha Morrison  

That was an incredible movie.

Tasha Jun  

Yeah. And then to see her win and kind of it be acknowledged across the board. Like, this isn’t just for Asian people.

Latasha Morrison  

Right, right.

Tasha Jun  

So I think that just felt so deserved for her. And then just like, oh, like this big sigh of relief of joy. Yeah. And then just wanting more. I just felt so much more for all of our communities, especially, like you said, that are more marginalized and overlooked.

Latasha Morrison  

And I think it’s important when we see movies that, you know, maybe like, this movie has a lot of Asian actors and actresses in the movie, or if you see a movie that has more South Asian or, you know, Bollywood films, it doesn’t mean it’s not for you. Like we don’t do that when it comes to any other movie. Like, you know, half of us has seen When Harry Met Sally or You’ve Got Mail or Sweet Home Alabama. None of those movies had any people of color in it. But we watch those movies because we enjoy them. I mean, look at Superman, Spider Man, like all of those things. Just because it doesn’t, if you’re uncomfortable with seeing and following, you know, if the lead actor doesn’t look like you or actress doesn’t look like you and that makes you uncomfortable, that’s something to examine.

Tasha Jun  

Oh yes.

Latasha Morrison  

You know? And to really look into like, why am I uncomfortable with this?

Tasha Jun  

Right.

Latasha Morrison  

And even when you go, you’re going places, that’s just a check, a thermometer check to see like to really deal with those biases that you may have. And you may need to take pause and say, “Where’s this coming from?” You know?

Tasha Jun  

Yeah.

Latasha Morrison  

And really press through those things. So, if you haven’t seen this movie, like, if you haven’t seen a movie that had a leading character that doesn’t look like you, you need to go do that. If you haven’t been in a place where you are the minority, you need to go do that. You need to visit the other side of town. You need to go…like, I shop at Super H a lot of times, H Mart, all the time. First of all, they have the best fruit in there. But you know, like, there’s a lot of things you can do in your community to really diversify and get out of this homogenous living, because it really does a disservice. And it does a disservice to the kingdom of God, in that sense. Because I always ask people do you think eternity is gonna look like this? Like, really? (laughter)

Tasha Jun  

I know. Yeah. I totally agree. It just feels like it representation, yes, it matters to me. But it’s for everyone. You’re missing out.

Latasha Morrison  

You’re missing out. And when we think diversity is really divisive, then we have missed something.

Tasha Jun  

Oh yeah.

Latasha Morrison  

Because diversity is a part of creation. Just look how boring the world would be if we only have one species of birds or the ocean. I mean, you think about God’s diversity from the beginning of Genesis 1:1 and then what is spoken in Revelation 7:9, like we got to get it together. Diversity is a part of God’s plan from the beginning to the end. And when we see that other, we have really let some sinful secular notions really creep into the faith. How have you persevered through the losses and the injustices over the past year? There’s been a lot as it relates to the violence against Asian Americans here in our country and just so many things that have happened. I was just watching a story about a family that was attacked, I mean, clearly attacked. I think it was in California. And I mean, the mom received stitches, like all of these things that happened, and this man is still walking around. And the police identified it as a traffic accident, when there’s no traffic accident.

Tasha Jun  

Oh, wow.

Latasha Morrison  

On the police report. It was like, they pulled into the McDonald’s and they were physically attacked by the guy that had road rage. And, you know, the dad, everybody was attacked. And this person is still walking around. And they had to get a lawyer. And there was a lot, because the mom, I don’t know, if it was a sense of shame that she was carrying. Because she wasn’t able to communicate as well, you know, because she didn’t speak English. But the daughter was speaking on behalf. And I was just thinking the weight that the children in that family are carrying because of that. And these things are happening in the places you live. There are two different Americas. Justice doesn’t look like justice for everyone. How have you persevered through this? 

Tasha Jun  

So I know this is not coming out until May, but I think today is the two year anniversary of the Atlanta, the spa workers that were murdered. And so I’ve just been thinking through that a little bit just recently. You know, you kind of carry some of that grief and anger around in our bodies. Over the last few years, I think as some stuff has surfaced and been in the news, barely, but has been there. I think I’ve really had to give some honest space for my feelings. I think some of the anger that I’ve had really surprised me. I’m sure it was always there. But there were some things that I was feeling that felt close to or just almost like rage inside that I really had to pay attention to and find some safe space to talk about it. You know? With others. And mostly that’s been other women of color or Asian American women just because they’ve known what I’m talking about. And just also like even just walking. I remember two years ago after everything feeling like I had to go outside and walk. And I was so angry, and I am a very slow person normally, but I was moving like at a light speed because that rage just needed somewhere to go, that anger, which was really just sadness and grief. So I think giving it space, acknowledging that it’s there. Just pouring my heart out to God in it very honestly. And then also in community, in safe community where I wasn’t going to be met with just encouragement to become bitter but also encouragement to put it away and you know, not be divisive because I bring it up. So yeah, honesty and community.

Latasha Morrison  

Yeah. I love that. Community is so important. What I’ve seen out of this, sometimes people find their voice. I’ve seen people find their voice in this. I’ve seen organizations be birthed out of what is happening. Where people needed representation, people needed their story to be heard from people that look like them.

Tasha Jun  

Yeah.

Latasha Morrison  

And so you’re seeing a rise of that. I was talking to a young lady here in Atlanta, who started or she’s a teacher, she started an organization for Asian American youth to really have a place of belonging, a club of belonging. It’s like an entrepreneurship type club, but they also talk about everything. So there’s just a lot of things that has really spurred a lot of people to fully lead. And you’re seeing this generation, you know, it’s like, “We respect our elders, but we’re not going to just go along to get along.” There’s this saying that Pastor Peter Lim, who’s the pastor of, I think, is Four Pointes Church here in Atlanta. But he does a lot of stuff, we partner with him a lot with Be the Bridge. But he was telling us, he gave the word, I cannot think of it right now. But it’s a Korean word of kind of like how his parents would actually say, you know, you kind of got to put your head down, and you just keep pushing forward. You don’t let it bother you, but you’re like stuffing, you know, stuffing and you know and then this pain and anger. But I’m glad to see that people are talking, people are communicating, people are coming together. There is solidarity. And I think it’s important, one of the things we do at Be the Bridge is to make sure that we know each other’s stories. Because those in the margin, sometimes we can be pitted against each other. And we don’t know each other. We don’t know our stories. We don’t know the history. There’s so much we don’t know about each other. But when we sit down and we’re able to have this discussion, we’re able to find out more about each other and have more empathy for each other’s story. And I think that’s what I love about what we do here at Be the Bridge. You had a project that you worked with, with the Voices of Lament with Natasha Robinson and so many other brilliant writers, one of the writers that wrote some of the liturgies is Mariah Humphries, who’s also a part of Be the Bridge. You shared a poem about Psalm 37:7-11 called Anger. And I think that’s your way of how you channel what you’re feeling. And it says, “Anger, I will not tame her.” Can you share a little bit about the collective work and what it meant to you? And about your poem. And I would love for you to read the poem.

Tasha Jun  

Sure. Yeah. I love everything that you shared. It was so beautiful, too, about just coming together and hearing each other stories. Yeah, I think that being a part of that book was just such a gift. I feel like just being around the other women, being led by Natasha, being around women like Mariah and others was just, I just still am so grateful to hear their stories. Not just have the writing together, but you know, we would meet on Zoom. And then I would have like a schedule conflict and so I would miss a lot. But the times that I was able to go I just carried that with me. I feel like that was another thing that carried me through some of the difficulty just knowing these other women were there who understood That depth of pain.

Latasha Morrison  

Yeah.

Tasha Jun  

Some in very different ways, like you were saying, different stories. But like we could be together. And we could commit to being together in it and expressing our lament together. That was huge. So yeah, it was such an honor. And yeah, I would encourage anyone that hasn’t read the book to get it. Because I think it just gives a map for how to walk through lament. Because we don’t talk about that very often. So, yeah, and I could read the poem. It’s “Anger, I Will Not Tame Her.” And so I kind of addressed some of that already just dealing with my own anger. And so this was kind of a poem, I guess about and to anger.

“Anger, I will not tame her. Anger. I will not tame her. I will tend to her instead. My hands are not tied. They are busy with a work of love. My mouth will not stay muted. It speaks prophecy and poetry. My mind is not empty. No, it remembers. Anger. I will not shush her. I will listen to her instead. My ears are not closed. They are open to the sound of suffering. My heart will not stay hard. It is soft, like soil wet with the tears of 1000 clouds. My body will not stay rigid. It welcomes the wails of my ancestors. Comfort women, forbidden comfort. Haenyeo, who know the dark depths of the sea. How it feels to be silent, swimming down, unafraid of the pressure. Proud of holding their breath to feed a hungry nation. Anger. She tells me the sad stories and sins. She carries the weight of war and unjust systems. She wields the power of thunder, oceans, rivers, and rain. She is fire burning with a question: ‘How long?’ She is something like courage. She roots are connected long-suffering. She reminds us who we wait for. To refrain from her rage, I must first let her speak. Anger. Show me your tears and your sorrow. Sing me your cries of not yet. Your songs of the oppressed. Teach me how to hope for a better tomorrow. And resign to the things I was never meant to burn down. I will wait with you like my eomma (Korean for mom) and her eomeoni (Korean for mother) before her. I will Look ahead for our God. A burning bush, a hot coal, a fire pit to stand beside while the rooster crows again. And we remember how much we need a Savior. Who knows, who feels, who sees, who loves, who is worthy to bring justice, who doesn’t delay. Anger. I will hope with you for a wide space of mended land. It’s just ahead a little while longer now. Anger. Tell me about the places that are still broken. I will sit with you while you become a glowing ember of warmth and light. I will seek what’s still unseen. Let my heart be searched clean. I will bring you to a place to lie down and rest. Anger.

Latasha Morrison  

Wow. Beautiful. I think in a culture that tells us that we must stuff our anger or we cannot show our anger, that does a disservice to many of us. You know? But I think what we have to be shown is the proper way to channel our anger. 

Tasha Jun  

Yeah.

Latasha Morrison  

And what that looks like. For some, people exercise. For some, talking it out. For some, it’s screaming. For some, it’s riding a bike or whatever, writing, singing, whatever that looks like. But I think what we have to do is just teach people how to channel what we’re feeling. And that will help. But teaching us to stuff it and to pretend like it didn’t happen or try to erase it. That does a disservice because that is only going to turn into a huge mess. It will explode. It will explode. What are some things, Tasha, that’s bringing you hope in this season?

Tasha Jun  

Yeah. Again, community. If that’s not redundant to say, but I think community. One of the things that I kind of started, I don’t know how many years ago, I should know. But it was a group of Asian American women and started off with four women and it was out of desperation. And it has grown and one of the things we did a year ago was host this Hope and Han event. And han being the Korean word for that kind of intergenerational trauma, that stuffing of just suffering and carrying it. And I know it’s used in other Asian cultures as well. And so we talked as a group about what it means to have that and the things that are passed down to us both from our ethnic cultural background and also our American history and also carry hope. And so I think even just being in community with other women, and being able to talk about both things, that we can have both things has given me a lot of hope. And I think seeing more and more people just show up as their whole selves and bringing belonging with them in their own bodies. Not that it’s it’s always welcome or always easy, but doing that, and then again, just doing that with others. I think that gives me a lot of hope.

Latasha Morrison  

That’s good. What are the things you do that bring you joy.

Siri  

I didn’t get that.

Tasha Jun  

(laughter) Oh, sorry about!

Latasha Morrison  

(laughter) Siri, we did not invite you to this conversation. 

Tasha Jun  

Yes, you are not invited to this conversation. (laughter) Writing obviously brings me joy. There’s all kinds of emotions in that. But travel is something. Kind of when you were describing about just learning about other cultures. It’s a big family value. And so even just thinking about travel. I’m one of those people, I will like get on Airbnb and you know, for 30 minutes just like look for a place somewhere that we’re not even going to. (laughter) Just to get this feeling of another culture. So I love that. I love just learning about different things. Right now National Geographic shows are giving me a little bit of joy.

Latasha Morrison  

Okay. Okay.

Tasha Jun  

I know so odd. So I was just watching this show called The Secrets of the Whales.

Latasha Morrison  

Oh, okay.

Tasha Jun  

It’s funny, I feel like it ties in though because they were talking about just the diversity of different whale groups, and how they have their own cultures and languages and I’m just fascinated. So just learning. Letting my curiosity lead. And then food is a huge Joy. Eating food, planning trips around food. Yeah. And then my family.

Latasha Morrison  

I love it. I love it. But you know what, you can learn a lot from watching National Geographic.

Tasha Jun  

Yes!

Latasha Morrison  

I’m fascinated about pandas and elephants. You know? So I get it. So you’re speaking to someone that like, and some of that is just kind of like relaxing. I like to watch pandas eat. I know, I just said that out loud, for real. If you’ve also seen them eat a carrot, you’re just like, oh. It’s so funny. It’s so great to really talk with you and to have you on the podcast today. When this airs is going to be doing AAPI month. What would you say to those that are listening that are a part your culture, your ethnicity, you know, during this month, I know that’s Asian American Pacific Islander Month, so that’s a broad base of people groups. But what would you say? What would you want people to get out of this month or this time?

Tasha Jun  

Yeah. I would just say that, you know, know that you are worth a month of celebration and honor, but that you are worth far more.

Latasha Morrison  

Yes.

Tasha Jun  

And so as you ingest that, how can that help you take up space with yourself, your whole self?

Latasha Morrison  

Right.

Tasha Jun  

Not in a pushy way. But just really, you are worth it. Completely. So, that’s simple, but I think that’s what I would say.

Latasha Morrison  

And every month. You are who you are 365 days of the year.

Tasha Jun  

Yes!

Latasha Morrison  

So I just say that that’s just a month where you could show out a little bit, where you allow people to, you know, this is where other people decide to recognize it, but you always recognize it. Like I always say, like, Black History Month, I mean, we should be really embarrassed we have to have a Black history month.

Tasha Jun  

I know.

Latasha Morrison  

Because our history is American history. America would not be America without people that look like you or people that look like me. And until we recognize that and stop trying to hyphenate things away and dash it away, we’re doing ourselves a disservice. We’re not going to be all that we can be when we try to segment out people groups and stuff. So I think it’s really important that we live into what we say, liberty and justice for all. What we say we represent, let it be true to it. So I’m so grateful to meet you. The book is Tell Me the Dream Again: Reflections on Family, Ethnicity, and Sacred Work of Belonging. And just so happens that your book launches in that month. And so that’s why we’re doing this, having this conversation. So we’ll actually put this out around the time that your book launches so that people would have resources that they can buy. Look at your books that you have. Do you have books that are written by Korean Americans? Chinese Americans? South Asian Americans? Do you have books that are written by African Americans? Nigerians? All of that is important. Latina writers? I think it’s important for us to have that. Look at your collection. Look at the things that you watch and make sure. Those are just the little things that you can do to start making your world a little bit larger. So thank you so much for taking the time to meet with, talk with me today. It was my pleasure to meet you. Now we know each other. You got to tell me about your trip to Korea and what that is like for your family, the experience. We stayed, I think it was Haeundae Beach when we were in Busan. We were right there by the water. It was so nice. Like it was incredible. And fashion like, let me tell you they are into fashion. Koreans are into fashion. And cute things. Everything has to be cute. Everything has to be cute.

Tasha Jun  

The whole culture.

Latasha Morrison  

There’s so many like little, I haven’t seen it here. We may have it in some other cities. But they have all these like selfie stores, like stores where you go in to take selfies. (laughter) I was like this is so incredible. So, so many things we have a common. So thank you so much for your writing and all the just beauty that you’re leaving behind. I know you’re husband, your mom, your children, your father, I know they’re all very proud of you. So thank you so much for sharing with us at the Be the Bridge community.

Tasha Jun  

I’m so so honored.

Tandria Potts  

Go to the donors table if you’d like to hear the unedited version of this podcast.

Narrator  

Thanks for listening to the Be the Bridge Podcast. To find out more about the Be the Bridge organization and or to become a bridge builder in your community, go to BeTheBridge.com. Again, that’s BeTheBridge.com. If you enjoyed this podcast, remember to rate and review it on this platform and share it with as many people as you possibly can. You can also connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Today’s show was edited, recorded, and produced by Travon Potts at Integrated Entertainment Studios in Metro Atlanta, Georgia. The host and executive producer is Latasha Morrison. Lauren C. Brown is the Senior Producer. And transcribed by Sarah Connatser. Please join us next time. This has been a Be the Bridge production.