The full episode transcript is below.
You are listening to the Be the Bridge Podcast with Latasha Morrison.
Latasha Morrison 0:05[intro] How are you guys doing today? It’s exciting!
Each week, Be the Bridge Podcast tackles subjects related to race and culture with the goal of bringing understanding.
Latasha Morrison 0:17[intro] …but I’m gonna do it in the spirit of love.
We believe understanding can move us toward racial healing, racial equity, and racial unity. Latasha Morrison is the founder of Be the Bridge, which is an organization responding to racial brokenness and systemic injustice in our world. This podcast is an extension of our vision to make sure people are no longer conditioned by a racialized society but grounded in truth. If you have not hit the subscribe button, please do so now. Without further ado, let’s begin today’s podcast. Oh, and stick around for some important information at the end.
Latasha Morrison 0:54
Okay, Be the Bridge community. This is Latasha Morrison, your host of the Be the Bridge Podcast. And I am so excited to have this brother here with us today to really talk about something that a lot of you in our audience are familiar with, and then maybe a few of you aren’t familiar with. And we’re gonna talk a little bit about the Enneagram. Yes, I said Enneagram. And I am speaking as the Enneagram nine – and proud of it! – with the eight wing. We have my brother Milton Stewart, he has a MBA, and he is the founder of Kaizen Careers, Coaching, and Consulting LLC. He loves facilitating the Enneagram and helping people feel seen. He is one of the very few African American male Enneagram teachers in the world. Milton believes that the Enneagram is more than just a personal tool, but a map in how to truly honor the humanity of others. He uses the Enneagram in many ways, but the most powerful way he uses it is in spaces of diversity, equity, and inclusion. He hosts a…and this is how I found out about Milton, is a friend sent me this and I wanted to know about more about the Enneagram but I wanted to do it in my cultural language and understanding, and he had a podcast called Do it for the Gram. And that right there just spoke to me because he said, “Do it for the gram.” And it’s an Enneagram podcast which teaches the Enneagram from a very practical standpoint. Milton is the first African American male International Enneagram Association Global board member. Prior to this full time work in Enneagram space, he worked in education. He helped adult students who were working to achieve their high school diplomas. He also worked as an administrator in the elementary school providing tools for students and staff to succeed. And so let’s welcome Milton Stewart to the Be the Bridge Podcast. (background applause) Thank you so much for joining us! And just a few months, probably been, it’s been over six months we had you in with our Be the Bridge team, with our staff. And we had everyone take the Enneagram test. And he came and walked us through just some of the training and tools. And it was like, so eye opening. And most of everyone that was on our team, except for maybe one or two, they were familiar with the Enneagram. But I think even the people who were familiar had a new perspective after going through the training that you did with the team. So I love the foundational tools that you have here. What does Kaizen mean?
Milton Stewart 3:52
So Kaizen means continuous improvement.
Latasha Morrison 3:55
Milton Stewart 3:56
Yeah, and so the focus like of my business, I wanted to make sure it’s like continuous improvement. So wherever I go, whatever I do, I’m leaving footprints of continuous improvement.
Latasha Morrison 4:07
Okay, so Kaizen. I love it. I love it. And so, I wanted to talk about why is the Enneagram, you know, there’s been a lot of, I mean, I don’t want to say hype, because there’s some real, it has helped a lot of organizations, people’s family and all of that. But there’s been a lot of talk and discussion around the Enneagram for several years now. I think I was living in Texas when I first heard about it probably bout back in 2012 I think I heard about it. And I didn’t really understand it, you know, at first I was like, “Oh, this is another just personality test.” But it was so funny because, as you know as 2012, 2016 you know you hear more and more about it. But when I would talk to any of my African American friends, like, “Oh, what’s your Enneagram number?” They’re like, “What? Huh? What?” (laughter) And so I only found out because I was in predominantly white spaces how I found out about it. How did you find out about it? First of all, to become a facilitator? And why is that the case? Why were we only hearing about it in predominantly white spaces?
Milton Stewart 5:26
Great question. So I found out about it about, it may have been similar to the time you found out about it, you know. But I dove in super deep. So it was around 2012, 2011, maybe. So what happened was, I was stuffing my face full of food at a devotional at our young adult minister’s house, as you do. I love to eat. So I’m stuffing my face. And like we’re just in a group just sitting around the living room eating because the devotional it was over. And so he came, and he was like, “Hey, who wants to take this personality test?” And everybody’s like, “Yeah, me, I love these things. Let’s do this.” Right? So he brings in this big blue book, which is called The Wisdom of the Enneagram. A pretty notable book in the Enneagram space. And he asked two questions. It’s like a two question test that they have in there with like, six different options. I get mine correct on the first one. My first two letters correct on the first time I take it. And he starts reading the first like, two paragraphs of the chapter of my type. And I’m like, “Oh, yeah, that’s right. That’s me. Sounds good. It looks good.” And then he starts reading the third and fourth paragraph, which are total opposite of like, what I want people to know about me. And I’m like, “Oh, no. What the world is this?” (laughter) So I’m sitting there. You know how, like, when, like, if you’re in church and somebody calls out like what you struggling with. But you try not to show it to people. So you try to look extra normal. You like, “Nah. I’m good. This is so good.” So I’m trying to look normal in front of them. But I’m like, “ Uh yeah, I’m gonna have to research this. I don’t know about this. I don’t know.” But inside I’m like, “Oh, my goodness. How do they know me?”
Latasha Morrison 6:56
This thing is exposing me! (laughter)
Milton Stewart 6:58
Right? Who’s been watching me when I didn’t know it? Big brother?
Latasha Morrison 7:02
It’s crazy! It’s crazy. (laughter)
Milton Stewart 7:05
Yes, so this is how I found out about it. So soon as I did that, it made me extremely excited to go figure out what the world this was and start to study it. And so at that time, it wasn’t that many books around like it is now. There’s tons of books, tons of IG pages.
Latasha Morrison 7:23
There’s a book for the book. (laughter)
Milton Stewart 7:24
Oh, my goodness, tons of podcasts. Like, there’s tons of things on Enneagram that are out there. How much is quality? That’s to be determined. But nevertheless, it just wasn’t that much. But whatever I could grab and find I started to research and I started to study and I start to dive in. So that’s the initial story of how I found the Enneagram, or how it found me to be honest. So what happened after that, is I started to do a little bit of research about because I didn’t know much about it either. Right? Like as a Black person we just didn’t know much, right? So when I would do research, and I would say, “Okay, let me see what’s out there.” There would never be anyone of color really out there really teaching or sharing Enneagram. So I was like, “Okay, this is also interesting.” And so one of the reasons it’s really, it’s taken time and we’re getting there, but one of the biggest reasons it’s not really tapped into BIPOC communities is because, one, it started when it when it came here, a guy by the name of Claudio Naranjo, he went over to California. And in California, he went to I want to say it was Berkeley or Stanford. And so these spaces where he was teaching were predominantly white when he came in. They were predominately white. And so the teaching and everything that was happening around that time, another person named David Daniels and Helen Palmer, they’re all white individuals, psychology majors, different things. And so they started to break it down and pass to other people, but their circles were not BIPOC circles. You know?
Latasha Morrison 8:56
Milton Stewart 8:57
So, you know, so it’s not getting to people, you know, and this is probably about I would say, this is about 30 years ago, 30 to 40 years ago, this is starting to get to America.
Latasha Morrison 9:07
Milton Stewart 9:08
Started kind of, the bigger part of it, the personality part started more in South America, but came here, went there. So that’s one of the biggest reasons. And they’re never…I think that even though the tool is about self awareness, I think there was still because of the way that America is structured, there was still a lack of awareness that our community that we’re sharing this wonderful tool with, is not diverse. You know? I think that’s, actually I know that’s one of the biggest reasons why it just has taken its time to get to BIPOC communities. And so it’s like, who can figure out within the BIPOC community the tool and then be able to also translate it to where, like, our people are like, “Oh, yeah, that makes sense.” And then, too, all of the literature that they wrote on the types a lot of times it doesn’t always reflect BIPOC culture and the people. So we show up sometimes in the type differently. Because even though there’s definitely gonna be similarities, the core stuff is going to be the same that you have to work on, but externally, because our external world treats us differently, we have to show up differently. So when you read a book sometimes that’s a little bit older by somebody who hasn’t been in diverse communities to see how the type reacts in a person, it’ll only give this one siloed version, which is predominantly coming from a white experience and not a diverse or BIPOC experience.
Latasha Morrison 10:36
Yeah, that’s so good. And so I never…that was, you said where a portion of this started you said in South America. And I think it was funny, because the first thing I thought about I was like, yeah, just like Christianity started in North Korea…I mean excuse me! (laughter) Just like Christianity started in North Africa. You know? And then, you know, when it goes through Europe, like, okay.
Milton Stewart 11:07
Latasha Morrison 11:07
You know, but now you’re saying like a portion of this started in South America. And wouldn’t you know like.
Milton Stewart 11:16
Can I add to what you just said?
Latasha Morrison 11:17
Milton Stewart 11:18
There’s a big part of the Enneagram that actually started in North Africa as well, by the way. I’m just gonna share that.
Latasha Morrison 11:24
Milton Stewart 11:24
Yes. Going back to Desert Fathers and some more stuff. I’m actually…I have some plans in the future to go because there’s some people who teach it, like some of the origins. There’s some different parts of the world that it’s come from, come together, but some of those deep origins start exactly where you’re talking about. Interesting isn’t it?
Latasha Morrison 11:44
Ain’t that interesting? Hmmm. Okay, okay. I’m gonna need you to do a little more research on that. And we need to get a book from you about that. You know? (laughter)
Milton Stewart 11:54
Will do. Working on it, working on it.
Latasha Morrison 11:56
Working on it, working out. But you know, what I found out in understanding this, you know, it really helps you to become more self aware. But this is different. How would you say that, how is the Enneagram…but first of all, I don’t want to assume that people know what the Enneagram is. Because, you know, we have our BIPOC community, and some people are like, “Enneawho? What? I know the Myers Brigg.” So let’s define. Can you define what is the Enneagram? And then we’ll talk about how it’s different from other personality tests.
Milton Stewart 12:34
Yeah, so the Enneagram is, basically it is kind of like a journey or map, you can call it a tool if you want. People call it many different things. But it’s, it’s really, when you use it, when you work with it the right way, it’s a tool to help you on a journey to help you find deeper self awareness to transform yourself. And what it does – and this is the secret sauce of it, and we’ll explain a little bit more in the next part – but it is the why behind how we think, how we act, and how we feel. And when we understand those now we understand our motivation. And when we can know our motivation, we have something to work with. So it’s hard for me not to answer the next question. Can I?
Latasha Morrison 13:17
Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
Milton Stewart 13:18
Okay, okay. So it’s very different from other personality quote unquote tests. Because the goal is not to put you in a box. What the Enneagram does is show you what box you’ve been living in, and which is your patterns, like our boxes, like our behavior patterns, our thought patterns, our emotional patterns that repeat over and over again. So what the Enneagram does is helps us to see them more clearly, so that we can start to work on them. And then we can kind of unravel that box, and then be able to have more of a choice, more of autonomy, to do what we really want to do and to truly show up for ourselves so that our personality doesn’t just show up. Because when we don’t show up, our personality shows up. So that is the, I would say part of it. And so the Enneagram has nine types, what they call it, nine different types. And what happens is each type has a different motivation or a different way that it has disconnected from God, basically. Right? Many circles will say different things like they will call, they may say something else, God, universe, whatever it is. But it’s disconnected from the very essence of our creation in the unifying force that exists within all of us. So it’s not different ways that we’ve done that somehow, someway. And it breaks down into nine different pieces. And then there’s more to it. I’m not going to explain more that because that’s too much to teach. But, but, that is a big part of it. So we get these interesting personalities on a way that we try to deal with this world that we’re in. These are coping mechanisms in a way in seeing the world in like only a ninth of the perception of what’s really there. There’s all of our perceptions are beautiful and they have something to give to the world. But we really see it only through our sliver until we start to work on ourselves and have more self awareness.
Latasha Morrison 15:04
Right. I think it helped me to also embrace myself and be comfortable in my skin and understanding like, okay, these are some of the things in your…because we all have things in our personality that we have to be aware of. But if I’m not aware of those things, I don’t know how to work on those things.
Milton Stewart 15:22
Latasha Morrison 15:22
So there’s some things that you can work on though. It’s not just like, “Oh, this is just how I am. So take me or leave me.” (laughter) But, you know, so we’re like, you know, there’s ways that we can be healthy and unhealthy and what that looks like. And I think it is really beneficial in how we communicate with with one another. What are some ways that you’ve seen it help in communication with one another?
Milton Stewart 15:49
Ohh. So there was just a global survey that was done by the Enneagram in Business Network and that surveys, all of these, like corporate companies from around the world who’s actually used the tool in business, have said, the greatest thing they get from it is empathy.
Latasha Morrison 16:08
Milton Stewart 16:08
And so when we are communicating, if we can like not only understand when I communicate that my words have an impact on someone else, and they’re receiving them in a certain way, now I’m going to be more mindful, more heartfelt about what am I actually saying and what am I actually displaying when I say certain things to certain people? Because now I’m more mindful, like, “Oh, this lands this way with this person. I didn’t realize that.” Right? Or, “If I just talk really tough, because this is how I like to talk. This is my energy.” It’s like, but…
Latasha Morrison 16:10
Milton Stewart 16:12
I know, right?
Latasha Morrison 16:14
Milton Stewart 16:15
Maybe the way that another person kind of received that from the heart level or the head level or the body level is not necessarily going to get the necessarily in a healthy outcome for all of us. And so with communication piece, that empathy piece is one of the hugest things. And it’s it’s amazing how that showed up in a survey to corporate companies, which is so interesting. Right? I didn’t expect it at all.
Latasha Morrison 17:13
Milton Stewart 17:13
Like I didn’t expect that one bit.
Latasha Morrison 17:16
Milton Stewart 17:17
Yeah, the other part of communication, I would say that’s pretty healthy and pretty big is not only knowing other people and what they show up with. Because there’s certain types that want to definitely be heard, there’s certain types they want to be seen, and there’s certain types that really are worried about, is it safe? Right? And everyone has these in us, but there’s some that there’s a priority to it, depending on your type structure.
Latasha Morrison 17:43
Milton Stewart 17:43
So that’s one thing. The other thing is, we sometimes don’t know if we’re a good communicator or not. We don’t even…we think we’re a good communicator. Right? And we like, “These other people, something wrong with them. They just don’t understand.” But we don’t understand that sometimes we only communicate from one center of intelligence that we’ve given. So we have a head center of intelligence, a heart center of intelligence, and a body, like a sensation, gut center of intelligence. And we can communicate from all of them. But sometimes when people don’t understand us, it’s because maybe we’re only communicating from one of those centers. And we’re not fully communicating. Like how we sometimes it’s like, “How do I feel about the situation? I’m telling you what I’m thinking, but I’m not telling how I feel.” So people are like, “Okay, we’re moving forward, but now I’m frustrated.” So, it’s really learning that. Like, learning that, “Oh, this is what’s going on with me. This is how I’m maybe miscommunicating. And what can I work on, so I communicate something that connects us that moves us forward.”
Latasha Morrison 18:43
So good. One of the things I know, it’s helped us in our team, because when I know, like what someone’s number is, I can understand how they are showing up and also what they need in return, like information that they need.
Milton Stewart 19:03
Latasha Morrison 19:03
And so that helps you. And I know a lot of people I know have done this in their families, you know, helping as far as like your relationships and communication and with your children. You know? And I think, you know, understanding like how your children are wired or their type helps them. And just imagine, I’m thinking about just imagine going into college with this type of information is really transformative. And so I think is so…it’s really different as I have gone through some of the trainings, I can see that it’s different from some of the other personality tests. It’s not just a personality test. It is showing, it is telling you how you’re showing up, but then also in ways how you could show up better. So I think that’s important. Now, in this space that we are in, how can we use the Enneagram when we are reconciling our differences as it relates to some of the racial tension that you see? Have people used the Enneagram as it relates in having these discussions? Like, how can the Enneagram help us in this conversation that we’re having around race and racial injustice?
Milton Stewart 20:28
Yeah, so everywhere I go, I use this tool. And so you know, I do D, E, and I and B work. And I have a couple of companies that I do that with the Enneagram spliced in, like a big chemical company, that’s supernational – shout out to them, they’re doing great things. But one of the ways that it overlaps is that if we aren’t self aware, there’s very little that we can change. I mean, you can look at AA meetings. Right? It’s like, first, I have to admit, I got a problem. So I got to be aware that I’m struggling with something. So once I gain the awareness, which also adds in humbleness, now I can shift some things, now I can move some things. Because a lot of times, there’s so much…a lot of times within our types they contribute to maybe an unhealthy ideology that we’ve adopted, and we don’t realize it. And we’re just rolling with it. Because now we’ve adopted into our personality. Whatever our personality quirks are or the strong things we feel, we’ve connected it there and now just makes it feel like it’s right. And we don’t have even the capacity, which self awareness gives us capacity to question ourselves and be like, “Okay, I know, I feel fired up about this. But let me take a step back. Let me think for a second, how am I showing up? You know, even though I’m fired up, am I treating other people wrong in my ability to be fired up?” And so that is one of the biggest pieces. So without self awareness, without self awareness, it is almost to me, almost virtually impossible to actually create true change. You know? Because sometimes self awareness comes with something, you know, dramatic happening, where a person realizes where it’s like they’re hitting the face with something. Right? You know, it’s like, “Oh, my goodness!” They can’t unsee certain things. Right?
Latasha Morrison 22:26
Milton Stewart 22:27
But what the Enneagram does, it helps us to start that process on our own inside of ourselves. So we don’t have to keep getting hit by like life, life two by fours, where it’s like, “Oh, my goodness, I didn’t know I was so blind. I couldn’t believe I was doing this and hurting people and saying this.”
Latasha Morrison 22:41
Milton Stewart 22:41
So the Enneagram, the biggest tool of it is that self awareness piece. And then the self awareness piece leads us to inner work, as we kind of call it. It’s like, “Okay, how do I work on myself so that I can show up better for my community, for myself, and for my partner?” So that’s one of the most powerful things the Enneagram does, when we talk about how it is directly correlated and connected to D, E, and I, B, and J, justice work as well. You have to have it, you have to.
Latasha Morrison 23:13
Yeah. And I think, you know, it’s so funny, you know, it’s like you talk about self awareness and, you know, in our transformational bridge this pathway that we’ve created as an organization, the first step is awareness, and then acknowledgement. You know? And so it goes hand in hand. If we’re going to do this work of racial reconciliation, you know, you have to be aware of the issue, of the problem. And then I think this takes it even a step deeper. It’s like, how are you showing up? You know, like, because it starts with you. And I always say this work that we’re doing, it started with me first. You know? And then as you transform the places that you intersect, transform and how you show up, you know, with people. And I think it has helped with, if you can develop empathy, you can do this work. But if you are apathetic, it’s not gonna work. It’s not gonna work. What are some books? You know, and people that are doing this work, there’s so many books out there now. One of my friends, Sandra Van Opstal, just I think she just collaborated on a book. I think she’s an eight. I want to say she an eight, she just did a book. You know? And so I hear about books all the time. What are some of the first books someone that’s really trying to understand. They’re like, “This makes sense. Hey, I am burning bridges. I’m the troll on the bridge. I’m noticing that I’m having the same problems in every place that I go to work.” There’s a common denominator in that. You know, if you’re continuously having issues and some of the same issues, it’s probably not the work environment or the people, it may start with you. You know? And so like, you know, there’s a common denominator there. What are some books for people that may be in that situation? What are some of the first books that you recommend that people should read?
Milton Stewart 23:14
I’m so glad you asked this question. Listen, I have four books. And they are fire.
Latasha Morrison 23:28
Okay, okay. Fire. I like that. (laughter)
Milton Stewart 23:33
Fire. I’m mentioned or my name pops up in two of them.
Latasha Morrison 25:30
Okay, okay, so they’re fire because your name pops up?
Milton Stewart 25:40
No, no, no, no, no.
Latasha Morrison 25:40
No, I’m just messing with you! (laughter)
Milton Stewart 25:43
So, alright, so the first one is The Enneagram of Black Liberation by Chichi Agorom.
Latasha Morrison 25:50
Oh, I like that.
Milton Stewart 25:51
That is the first one I recommend people read when you talk about overlapping, like understanding the BIPOC or any marginalized culture with the Enneagram overlap. Oh, my goodness.
Latasha Morrison 26:05
Milton Stewart 26:05
It’s powerful. The next book I would recommend is…alright, so it’s called Know Justice Know Peace. But it’s K N O W. And it’s on both of them. So it’s Know Justice Know Peace, K N O W Peace. By Dr. Deborah Egerton.
Latasha Morrison 26:26
Milton Stewart 26:26
Okay, that’s the second one. The third one I would…and this book is not a crossover of BIPOC and justice work, but it’s just Enneagram in general. It’s called The Complete Enneagram by Beatrice Chestnut.
Latasha Morrison 26:42
Milton Stewart 26:43
Okay. And then last but not least, is a book called Reclaiming You, an Enneagram look at trauma by Sharon K. Ball.
Latasha Morrison 26:55
Ohh. Tell me a little bit about that one. Why is that one on your list?
Milton Stewart 27:01
So that one is on my list because a lot of times part of the reason why people show up so, I guess, harshly or it’s so difficult for some people to even have the space to shift change or become humble or curious, just curious, is because there’s some form of trauma that has not been dealt with that resides inside of their bodies. And so the body, the body keeps score, like there’s a book called The Body Keeps the Score. And it does. Even though mentally we may have forgotten it, or it’s lodged away somewhere hiding, because our mind was like, “Nah, nah, that’s too much. We can’t do that.” But our body keeps the score. And until we learn how to work through some of those traumatic experiences – rather, it’d be with a counselor or therapist or your preacher or somebody who is certified to do this work, right, or spiritual teacher or somatic worker – until we work with those things, it’s really hard for anyone but especially people who’ve had like, maybe consistent trauma, right? It’s not big trauma, big T’s, it’s just a lot of small t’s that never dealt with them. And so they get triggered back into the same patterns, which tightens our type structure, our personality. Or we could’ve had a big T. And because we’re so used to dealing with life and like, “Life is like that. I gotta keep moving forward. I keep doing my thing. Right?” And that’s a defense mechanism to a degree to cope with it. But as long as we don’t really unpack it and deal with it, it’s hard for us to heal so that we can truly be as impactful, as empathetic, as earth shattering, you know, ground shaking, moving things in a positive way than we can be. So that’s the reason I consider that one because they do have practical things that anyone can do here that helps when we do encounter those internal body traumatic things going on. Or if something traumatic happened, it gives you tools to be like, “Okay, this is what you may need to do. Because we have to complete a stress cycle.” Like we get…our bodies get caught in the fear. Like what happens freeze, fun, flight, fight, all that. Right?
Latasha Morrison 29:12
Milton Stewart 29:12
But we never complete it some time. That’s the problem. Most time we don’t complete it so that we can move forward. So our body is stuck with that charged up energy, anxiety, all that type of stuff. So yeah, that’s the reason I considered that book. And I wanted to share because it’s really, practically helpful. And I know, people listening on this podcast, like, I know they care about this area or have and are going through this and it’s been normalized. And it’s not normal. Trauma is not a normal thing. We should just be walking around like, “I’m fine. I battled all this.” Like, no. Let’s work on each other. Let’s heal.
Latasha Morrison 29:48
Yeah, I love it. I love it. I love it. And you see, this is…you know, some of you are listening and he probably hit on a couple of things that you’ve never heard. And some of you have been studying the Enneagram or are in conversations, but this is what happens when there’s diversity and inclusion at the table. It makes for a more robust conversation. You know? And I think some of the elements that you’re talking about, for me, I’m able to connect with that in a better way. And I’ve been a part of a lot of these conversations, but I think these are some practical things even for our community. How do you think, how can you use the Enneagram as a tool to better engage people in your community? So those of you who are hearing this, what are, you know, these are, you know, the Be the Bridge community, they are being activated within their community, they’re leveraging their skill sets, their giftings, and all of that to do this work of racial justice and racial healing and racial equity within their communities. So how can they better engage, how can this this tool help you better engage the community? Other than empathy? (laughter)
Milton Stewart 31:08
Yeah, yeah. I think one of the best way it helps, in a way to get to it is, and this is always a little tricky, because when you have people who’ve been doing the work for a while, they’re like, “We want to do it a certain way.” One of the biggest things is to get people possibly, like typed correctly, like finding the correct Enneagram type. Because a lot of times you feel seen, and then you can actually see what gifts, what strengths that you have, but also what potential struggles and challenges and pitfalls you have to watch out for. And it helps to help you understand that, like, you’re not the only person out here with this personality. Because I remember growing up as a teenager, there were times where I was like, “I think I’m crazy.” I mean, even after teenage, like, I was like, “I think I’m slightly crazy. Like the way that I think. Something must be wrong or something.” Right?
Latasha Morrison 31:15
I’m just different. I’m just different. (laughter)
Milton Stewart 31:28
Right, right. “Something’s off. Something’s off with me.” You know? But helping us to understand that, like, there are people around the world going through the same things we go through is so important. And so if we’re engaging our communities with the Enneagram, like, besides empathy, we talk about people just feeling seen. One of the, I think one of the most important things for me, and this is, like my personal view, because I’ve been in a lot of communities that are predominantly white, obviously in Enneagram space right now. And there are some schools of thought where it’s like, “We really want the person to wait and explore who they are, and figure out their type.” I don’t feel the same way. Because I feel like the life that BIPOC people live, it’s just like, it’s too, life is too serious and dangerous at times to not understand self, to my opinion. So I feel like we need to do our best to get to what the accurate type is, honestly, not rushing, not forcing, but fast as possible. Because some of the traits, depending on our external environment, have been heightened so much that it could lead to a life or death situation, it could lead to a situation that makes it hard for me to move forward because of XYZ, because of my own trauma and stuff. And so we don’t always have, in my opinion, you know, the capacity, “Just wait and let it come to us. And we’ll find it.” I don’t feel like we always have that capacity. So I’m trying to get to the accurate type, so that we can really see ourselves. So one, like you talk about self love. So outside of like empathy for other people, we’re talking about compassion for ourselves. This is something you mentioned earlier, which is powerful. We learn how to find ways to love and include different parts and accept parts of ourselves that maybe before we thought was just some outlier, something weird about it, and we never saw like the gift that came with it. So that’s one of the biggest gifts. So we talk about, like our community, experiencing our community. Talk about being able to see yourself more clearly, so you can love yourself deeply. Right? So you can accept yourself. And that changes everything. When we love ourselves, oh, my goodness, the way that we operate externally changes so much. The way we work with our kids, work with our family, work with our church, work with our friends, work with our partners, all of that shifts, the way we treat the schools, everything shifts. So even in this work, and it’s been one of the hardest things for me to learn, there’s so much that I can’t approach with my mind. There’s a lot of things I can think about and stuff. But when I talk about deeper relationships, and when we talk about like the work that you all do, the justice work that you all do, you gotta be connected to the heart. Because, I’ve mentally tried to work on people and change them based on facts and stats, and that does not completely work. You got to have the heart and then insert the facts and stats. But you got to connect first from the heart.
Advertisement 34:49[Latasha Morrison sharing about becoming a recurring partner of Be the Bridge and shopping the online store] If you’ve been enjoying and learning from the Be the Bridge podcast, we invite you to join us in this work. You can support and sustain our mission as a recurring partner at BeTheBridge.com/Give. You can also help spread this word of bridge building by supporting and really sporting our apparel. So if you haven’t gotten your Be the Bridge hat, sweatshirt, all of the things, let’s take the message to the street. Visit our online store at Shop.BeTheBridge.com. And make sure we’re spreading the word about all the work that Be the Bridge is doing and will do. At Be the Bridge we’re doing the work to empower people and culture toward racial healing, racial equity, and racial reconciliation. And this work is only possible because of the generosity of bridge builders like you. So thank you so much for those of you who are listening and sharing our podcast, sharing our posts, those of you who are giving to this work, that’s helping us create resources and material that will transform hearts. So join us at BeTheBridge.com/Give. And let’s continue to build bridges together. Thank you so much.
Latasha Morrison 36:16
Man. And so when you think about like, I know, there’s so much that I learned about myself. And when I originally took the test, I had to take it probably like three times before I really, like understood people will say, “Well, what are you?” I was like, “I’m a 13.” (laughter)
Milton Stewart 37:30
Latasha Morrison 37:30
And then they were looking at me like, “Uhhh.” And then I remember telling people I was a three. I don’t even know where that came from. But then when I took it probably a couple years ago I was a nine. But I didn’t want to be a nine.
Milton Stewart 37:40
Latasha Morrison 37:40
I was like, “What? How is this?” But when I look at a nine, when I truly look, I am definitely a bery strong nine, an off the chart nine. I don’t know if you have my stuff with you. But I’m an off the chart nine. But I have this eight wing. And so when you think about doing what I do, leading the way I lead, typically you wouldn’t see a lot of nines doing this. So explain that. Explain how that works. You can just use me as a breakdown. Breakdown Latasha Morrison for the Be the Bridge community. (laughter)
Milton Stewart 37:40
All right, game time.
Latasha Morrison 37:49
Game time. (laughter)
Milton Stewart 37:50
So, there’s levels and layers to this. And this is the beauty of the Enneagram. It doesn’t, like we said earlier, it doesn’t box people in. The goal is to help you not be in the box.
Latasha Morrison 37:55
Milton Stewart 37:56
So one thing that’s really important to understand is that when we do our inner work, like we have access to all nine numbers. When we need to, we can step into another number. Right? We can show up and say, “Oh, even though,” and I guess I”ll give my number now, I’m a seven, right? Like seven’s my home base. Even though I’m a seven and I can be fun, free, all over the place, scattered also, but when I need to be disciplined, focus, I can move to the line to the one and really have my focus on. So if we’re talking about you as a leader as a nine, which is usually generally not the position that nines take in organizations. And so one big part of it I think that’s important to note, because there’s levels and layers, so within each nine types, there are what’s called three instincts. And so we all have these instincts in us, but they’re stacked in a different way. So one is like very important. And we like to do it really, really strongly. And then one is like repressed and we don’t show up that much. And if I’m not mistaken, your dominant stack, or the instinct that’s on top of you is social. And so even though you may be a nine, you’re being a social dominant, like that’s the instinct, that’s what it’s called, it means to care about communities, organizations. I mean, it’d be your high focus. So even though that being the case, when the nine has a dominant instinct of the social instinct, that mean they really care about the community and other people. And so they work extremely hard for other people in the community to be well. They have to make sure they do it in a way that they honor themselves and that they take care of themselves because they could do to the detriment of themselves at times. So they do have to be careful. But it really makes…and this makes sense when you said a three popped up, is because the social nine can look like the three. Like where are the three is like making sure that things are getting done, you’re accomplishing things, you’re knocking things out. The social nine can look externally like a three because they are are ambitious at accomplishing something for the greater good of people. And that’s what’s going on. The difference is, a lot of times internally, there’s a lot difference internally, a lot of things going on different internally, between the nine and three. I promise you that. (laughter) And that’s the things you repping now. You’re like, “Yeah, that’s me.” So there’s a drive for social nines to be able to do that. And that’s a part of what I see you doing, which I think is incredible. And then you mentioned the wings. And so what wings are, for those who may not know, it’s the numbers to the left or the right of the of your home base. Okay?
Latasha Morrison 38:20
Milton Stewart 39:16
So it means you pick up a little bit of that behavior. You don’t change your type; you don’t pick up their core stuff they have to work on, but you pick up a little bit of their behavior. And so one, being a Black woman in America, naturally, you’re going to have to take on a little bit of that eight to be able to make it, to be able to move past, to be able to be strong in the face of adversity. So that’s a natural thing that, and especially since it’s right next door to your number, it’s a natural thing you’ve taken upon. Right? Because it’s like, “Okay, when I step in this room, I’m going to have to bring more groundedness. I’m had to bring a little bit more on my voice. I’m gonna have to say something.” Guess what? Even though nines like to, like they’re the peacemakers, or peacekeepers as they call it or whatever, in this, I’m gonna have to create a little bit of conflict so that we can get some true peace because we’re not doing it.
Latasha Morrison 41:20
I’m gonna have to make you uncomfortable, so we can move this conversation forward. (laughter)
Milton Stewart 41:24
That’s right, that’s right.
Latasha Morrison 41:26
Little discomfort. But my friend calls it my friend, she explained it to me, my friend Destiny, she said, “It’s like you were like, rubbing me on my back, but also, like, hit me in my face, and you don’t know whether to be mad at you or to hug you.”
Milton Stewart 41:45
Latasha Morrison 41:46
And she said, “And you did it with a smile. So I was like, she loves me, she cares for me. But this is hurting me.” You know?
Milton Stewart 41:55
Latasha Morrison 41:55
And that’s, I don’t try to do that. That’s just my personality does that, you know, on its own.
Milton Stewart 42:03
Listen, I have one of my best friends who lives in Greece, he’s a missionary – shout out to Jackson. He’s a nine. He did the exact same thing to me. I was talking about something, going in, and then he brought something to my realization. He brought something to my realization about women’s rights I hadn’t thought about. And this is was about, I don’t know, 12, 13 years ago, we riding in a car. And it was like, he just called me out. But it was like…like, I didn’t know what to do either. I was like, he’s so right right now. I don’t know to be offended or to thank him. I can’t tell. (laughter) But it’s a gift when nines step into just fleeing from like, “Oh, no, I don’t want to rock the boat, don’t want to cause conflict here.” When they step into, “Yeah, conflict has to happen, because we need to solve something and bring a true version of harmony, a true version of peace.” Oh, yeah, it’s a gift. It’s a gift.
Latasha Morrison 42:57
And one of the things that you told us when you did our training with our team, I forget, you’ll have to help me out. I want to bring it up, because I’m hoping that you can. You said there were only two people, two or three people, on our team with that. And it was kind of like how we showed up. I know, it was like, I was a social nine. But how I interacted, I forget the word that was used. Oh, I cannot think of if. If I think of it, I’ll come back to it.
Milton Stewart 43:29
Please do. Yeah.
Latasha Morrison 43:30
I will. But you know, so the Enneagram is going to help you with observations. And so it’s gonna help you when you’re self aware, it’s going to help you see your biases. But also, I think it helps, you know, as you see your bias as you’re able to see people. So you are able to see people in the condition that they’re in. So whether it’s someone that’s in a marginalized community or someone that’s in a more structural, privileged community. Can you elaborate on that a little bit more just as far as the Enneagram and self observation? And maybe using me as an example, again, if you want to, or yourself.
Milton Stewart 44:18
I think one of the gifts of becoming self aware is that you become also culturally aware. And so you are alluding to this. It’s like, okay, one, when I started to understand the stuff going on inside of me, it’s like, “Whoa, this is a lot.” Right? But then we start to see what it connects to in my own life. So it’s like, “Okay, where am I societally? And what’s going on? And what impact does that have on others? The way that I show up, the way that I take up space, how does that impact other people?” As a seven, I can fill a room with words. I can talk and talk and talk and talk and not leave space for everyone else in the room who has something to say that may not process like brain power as fast as I do. But guess what? Their idea may be 10 times better than mine, but I’ve just been speaking quicker. And so for me, learning that, yes, I do have a natural tone that speaks pretty fast on a natural basis. As a seven, my brain pops ideas out of nowhere really quickly, they may not be all the way through, but they pop up really quickly.
Latasha Morrison 45:23
Milton Stewart 45:23
And realizing that I have the capability to like, just speak and just take over and everyone doesn’t. That’s helped me to say, okay, in spaces, where I am not the only person there, I need to make sure that like, “Hey, yes, my voice is important, just as important as everyone in here, but also their voices are just as important as mine.” And so I need to make sure I allow space for them to speak too or to share themselves. So that means maybe I need to, like, get my point off, share my point a little bit more concise and then pull back so that someone else has space to do it. But that’s me noticing what’s going on around me as well, because I understand what’s happening inside of me. And so that’s one of the biggest components that’s important to understand. And then it goes a little bit further outside of that. Right? You start to look at the context of people, and not just what they do at that moment. But what’s their context? Where are they coming from? And so having a little bit more of that empathy, it’s like, “Oh, you’re coming from that space. Like, obviously, I disagree with everything you’re saying right now. But from your context, until we have a real good conversation and connection, that’s all you know right now. But okay, we’re gonna work on it together, because I’m gonna do my best to connect from a heart level, because you are a human like I’m a human. You deserve love, compassion, empathy, just like I do, even though it’s gonna take a little work inside sometimes, because I disagree what you’re saying. Nevertheless, when we make that connection, then we’ll be able to share that perspective a little bit more and, you know, add in a little bit more things that maybe I didn’t see or they didn’t see, so that we have a little bit more reconciliation going on.”
Latasha Morrison 47:02
Yeah, so good. Are there some types that lean a little bit more towards justice, social justice? Are there some types that kind of naturally kind of lean that way?
Milton Stewart 47:21
Yeah, naturally, I would say that there are eights, nines, and ones. Because their primary emotion – and I’m gonna explain this a little bit quick – their primary emotion is anger. So when I say anger…
Latasha Morrison 47:39
Ohhhh. That’s so funny. (laughter)
Milton Stewart 47:42
….I know. So helping people understand that, “Hey, anger is not bad or good, it’s how it’s used.” Right? There’s a righteous anger, and then there’s a malicious anger that can do bad things. So if we’re just talking about anger, in general, this is their primary emotion that they orient the world. And what anger is really saying within the eights, nines, and ones is that, “Hey, I feel something is wrong. And something needs to be done. Something’s off. Something’s not right. There needs to be something happening here.
Latasha Morrison 48:11
That’s so me.
Milton Stewart 48:12
Right, right. And it takes it to like, “Okay, let’s move into action.”
Latasha Morrison 48:16
I call it discontent. I call it discontent.
Milton Stewart 48:18
That’s one of the emotions of anger. Yes, that is one of them. That is one of the emotions of anger.
Latasha Morrison 48:23
Okay. I’m always discontent. (laughter)
Milton Stewart 48:24
It makes sense for nine to say that. And it makes sense for nine to say that. It’s like, “No, no, I’m not angry. I’m just discontent.” (laughter)
(laughter) And then I’ll throw on there I did not go on there, “It’s holy discontent.” (laughter)
Turn it up a notch.
Latasha Morrison 48:33
Turn it up a notch. But that is so true. And I have to balance that, because you could be all over the place. So that’s good. So you said the eight, nine, and one. Okay. I’m cut you off; I’m sorry.
Milton Stewart 48:52
No, no, no. I mean, if you’re just talking about in general as in like having a tendency to bent or lean towards it more naturally, because of their type structure. Right? You know, all the types obviously can be fired up, do great work, and should be doing great work. Right? But the natural type structure can be towards that right? Now, the flip side, is when someone is on the flip side of that of like, the opposite of justice. Where you have to be careful, too.
Latasha Morrison 49:05
Milton Stewart 49:11
They can be difficult to work with in these scenarios until they fully see they’re like, “Oh!” But, oh yeah.
Latasha Morrison 49:34
That’s good. You know, I think about when we think about types, and how they have, “Oh this famous person is this type,” and “Great leaders are this type.” Do you see some of that playing into the Enneagram also? I think someone said, like, “Oh, if you had to name someone. What is Oprah?”
Milton Stewart 50:08
Latasha Morrison 50:09
“What is Oprah as a type?” or you know or, “This leader that leads this company is this.” You know, you hear that, but what I’ve seen with the Enneagram is that it’s so diverse in even in it’s leadership and how people lead, you know, with various types. And then understanding how we’re working in those types. And there’s still so much about this that I don’t understand, that I’m still trying to dissect. And all those things. You know? We have someone on our team, Andrea, I know you know her. She’s all into it.
Milton Stewart 50:46
Latasha Morrison 50:47
You know, yes, she is, like, all deep into it. I’m like, I think I use it like, as far as my self awareness and how I communicate with others, and then also to help me understand people better. But then it’s, you know, I think when you do that it does help you have empathy for people, and then it helps you lead. I think it makes me a better leader knowing someone, their type and how they’re showing up. What are some ways where you will see that the Enneagram intersects with this work of racial reconciliation?
Milton Stewart 51:31
So, the space where I’d see it doing that probably the most when you talk about racial reconciliation, is – I’m gonna come back to that same piece, I’m sorry, but – empathy is gonna be a big part of it. I’m bringing it back.
Latasha Morrison 51:50
No, that’s good. That’s good.
Milton Stewart 51:52
Because, when I enter a space, when I work with people, I have to understand what’s happening in me first, too, especially if I’m doing racial reconciliation work.
Latasha Morrison 52:01
Milton Stewart 52:02
Because here’s the tricky part. You know, we can go into something with the best intentions and the best motives, if we aren’t aware, self aware of what’s happening in us at the present moment or when we’re entering into the space, what happens is, especially if we get triggered, our ego, or personality takes over. And so now we’ve gone from trying to do racial reconciliation work to trying to win. And that is not the way that it works. It’s not, we don’t go into that work to win, you’re going into it to build bonds, to build bridges. Right?
Latasha Morrison 52:41
Milton Stewart 52:42
And so, going in it to win, you’re never going to build that bridge, because the ego has taken over because we lost self awareness. We lost what was going on inside of ourselves, we got charged up, we got triggered by something somebody said. And rather they meant to hurt us or not or it triggered something, nevertheless, our ego has taken over. It’s like, “I got this now. Move back. I know what to do now. We’re gonna win this thing so we’re safe.”
Latasha Morrison 53:05
Right, right, right.
Milton Stewart 53:05
And, so understanding the Enneagram is saying, “Whoa.” So like, before I go and facilitate, like, one thing, just noticing is like…okay, me specifically as a seven, we have what is kind of like very, we’re very light in our bodies. So we have a lot of head energy, we’re kind of up springy, the energy is all at the top of our bodies, our heads kind of, arms and stuff. But the bottom of us, we’re not always very grounded. So me understanding that if I enter a space that is going to be, I would say as serious as racial reconciliation work, and I’m not grounded, then I’m not showing up fully in my body. And so what I can do in my specific type, when it comes to racial reconciliation work, all of a sudden, I make things lighter than what they are, or I make a joke, or I distract people, or I mentally check out for a while because maybe it’s just too much for me. But if I’m aware, like, “Okay, I see what’s going on here. Let me do some breathing practices. Let me ground myself. And let me make sure I’m serious when I enter this space, because what we’re talking about is serious.” Right? Or, “Let me deliver information in a way that gets the point across in a serious manner.” Because that’s another thing sevens can do; we can say something and just make it seem like a joke or light enough where it doesn’t hit the mark like it needs to hit the mark. So every type has something that we do that is similar when we get into these spaces, in these different, I would say even situations or conversations with people that are on a level of racial reconciliation. But if we’re not aware of what’s happening in our bodies, all of a sudden our ego takes over personality. And we’re just is running the show, and we’re not really creating and building a bridge, we’re just simply going through our automatic patterns that we’re so used to doing. So I think that’s the biggest way it helps us is that, “Okay, if I can be aware in the situation of what is happening inside of me. And simultaneously,” because this happens, too, “have an empathy for them, because now maybe I’m listening to what they mean and not 100% of what they’re saying.” Right? Because there’s a difference. I can listen with my heart. If I’m present to a person – head, heart, and body – if I’m present, all that’s here, now, I can listen with my heart when someone else speaks, and not just my head, because my head got a lot of judging going on. It’s like, “That fact was wrong. They didn’t say that right. They don’t know what they talking about. That acronym was correct. Did you use the right pronouns?” All this stuff? Right? You know?
Latasha Morrison 53:07
Milton Stewart 53:07
And so when I bring it back to the heart, it’s like, okay, what’s the heart of the matter they’re trying to convey here? And is there something that I can see and maybe connect at that level? And then maybe we can talk about other stuff? And can I physically be present with them? Can I feel what they’re trying to get across? And can they feel what I’m trying to get across? You know? So yeah.
Latasha Morrison 55:56
That’s so good. And as we close, what are some things that you probably have learned in working with various groups like as far as race, age, and socio class. Because this, you know, as we talk about diversity of groups, we talk about, like, this really getting starting in the States, and very white spaces, but when we think about this and as it relates to class, what are some of your thoughts around that?
Milton Stewart 56:33
Yeah, this is why I love the Enneagram. Because there’s so many different spaces that bringing our full humanity and seeing other people fully as humans needs to constantly be poured into. And so one of the things that I’ve learned, and I’m learning and I’m also trying to bring to these different spaces, is the fact that the way that we even speak about people who we feel there are different than we are, there’s a mindset in the way that like it’s talked about. So I give you a quick example, just a very quick example. I’m looking at going to a conference, and it’s a conference that is that, you know, these people are trying to make some money. You know?
Latasha Morrison 57:22
Milton Stewart 57:22
And so the issue is that there are good things that they’re saying, but when I read your book, and you say, “The difference between rich people and poor people,” I have a problem with that. Right? Because to me, you’ve already put people in a different class. And you may say a different mindset, like a rich mindset or a poor mindset, I’m fine with that. But when we put people in a whole different class, that’s not healthy for us at all. Because then we start to feel some type of way about ourselves, and who we think we are, and all that stuff. And it’s not just that arena of like money and class, but it’s every single arena. So we really have to watch ourselves. Right? We really have to be like, “Oh, even though I’m used to saying and calling these people that, I need to pull that back. Even though I’m with my folk, I need to be careful. Because even though I may know that when I interact with someone who’s different that I don’t speak or say those things, the people I’m speaking with they may not and they may carry that on into their conversation.” So I’m like, Oh, this humbleness thing goes a little bit further than I want it to. But I’m working on it. So.
Latasha Morrison 58:26
Yeah, yeah. That’s good. That’s good. Now, what is one of the greatest takeaways personally that you’ve gotten from leading with the Enneagram? Like, what is one of the greatest takeaways that you’ve gotten personally?
Milton Stewart 58:50
I would say the greatest part that I’ve…quick story that happened to me about, I want to say, like four weeks ago, or five weeks ago, is that when the Enneagram, I do something for organization, and it impacts their family in a healthy way. And so I taught something we teaching self awareness, and part of my self awareness is helping people to feel their bodies. And so I do breathing practices. Right? Which can feel weird in corporate spaces, they’re like, “What this dude got us doing? We sitting here breathing, closing our eyes, I don’t trust this guy.” Whatever. But when they learn to trust it, when they are able to take home something and they say, “Oh, I went home and my daughter was having a hard time sleeping because her mind always wanders. And I was wondering if this could be her type and I used this technique you taught us and she was able to go to sleep just fine and feel really comfortable and safe.” And I said that’s the stuff right there when it goes beyond just me talking in a room with people, when they can take it home and their families are impacted in a healthy way. Those are always the greatest takeaways I can do is when it’s moved beyond compartmentalizing, just what I work, but it’s moved into our personal lives and it’s like transforming the way that we live and love.
Latasha Morrison 1:00:02
Yeah, yeah. I love that. Transformation, I’ve heard you say that several times. And so, you know, I think how we sum up the Enneagram in this outworking is that of transformation. So transformation of self that helps you transform the places that you are a part of, that you intersect. So your community, your home, your workplace, we’re not turning those things off, you don’t have one type in this place and then…you may show up differently in some of those spaces. But I think the ultimate goal is to really, to be our healthy selves. you know, so I’m so grateful for you. I’m glad that you’re doing this. I’m glad that your friend brought out the blue book, and you took that test. And that just ignited. I mean, it provoked a career change for you.
Milton Stewart 1:01:02
Latasha Morrison 1:01:02
You do this full time right now, right?
Milton Stewart 1:01:04
Latasha Morrison 1:01:05
Yeah, consulting. You heard how he dropped about that chemical company that he’s doing some consulting work with. So I’m so grateful for you. And we had Milton, he spent the day with us here in Atlanta with our team and it was transformative. And you know, a lot of us had had experiences and we’ve done training with the Enneagram, but this was different. And there was a deeper connection. I don’t know. It was just, it was it was really different.
Milton Stewart 1:01:37
Latasha Morrison 1:01:37
It was really life giving. And so we were really grateful for you. And you spent some time with the team afterwards. And you know, I had to show you off at Top Golf, but you know. (laughter)
Milton Stewart 1:01:47
Yeah you did. I was not good. That’s okay though. I’m working on it.
Latasha Morrison 1:01:51
I was horrible. No, I’m terrible at it, sorry. (laughter) But anyway, thank you so much. And, you know, I would say what is the one hope at the end that you would want to leave with our audience that they would get out of maybe, you know, if they’re curious about the Enneagram, what is one hope that you would hope that they would get from there?
Milton Stewart 1:02:16
I would say one hope is that they do find great Enneagram material and or teachers so that they could truly start to do self awareness work and heal, to heal themselves and to love themselves even more, so they can do more for the community.
Latasha Morrison 1:02:37
Yeah, I love that. And so you can follow Milton on Instagram. And we’ll give all that information in the show notes. But Do it for the Gram Podcast is actually on Instagram. And so there are a lot of other ways that we’ll put in the show notes that you guys can connect with. So make sure that you let us know how this podcast was helpful to you when we post this. Make sure you come and comment and tell us some stories. I want to hear about your type or maybe some things that you disagree with. You know, I was about to say keep that to yourself. But yeah, we want to hear your disagreements, too.
Milton Stewart 1:03:18
Latasha Morrison 1:03:19
I had to activate that eight right there. (laughter)
Milton Stewart 1:03:23
Uh huh. Challenge!
Latasha Morrison 1:03:23
(laughter) We’re so grateful for you. And thank you for listening to the Be the Bridge Podcast.
Go to the donors table if you’d like to hear the unedited version of this podcast. Thanks for listening to the Be the Bridge Podcast. To find out more about the Be The Bridge organization and or to become a bridge builder in your community, go to BeTheBridge.com. Again, that’s BeTheBridge.com. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, remember to rate and review it on this platform and share it with as many people as you possibly can. You can also connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Today’s show was edited, recorded, and produced by Travon Potts at Integrated Entertainment Studios in Metro Atlanta, Georgia. The host and executive producer is Latasha Morrison. Lauren C. Brown is the Senior Producer. And transcribed by Sarah Connatser. Please join us next time. This has been a Be the Bridge production.