Ep 291 | “Do It Anyway” with Tasha Cobbs Leonard

Narrator
You are listening to the Be the Bridge Podcast with Latasha Morrison.

Latasha Morrison[intro] How are you guys doing today? It’s exciting!

Narrator
Each week, Be the Bridge Podcast tackles subjects related to race and culture with the goal of bringing understanding.

Latasha Morrison[intro] …but I’m gonna do it in the spirit of love.

Narrator
We believe understanding can move us toward racial healing, racial equity, and racial unity. Latasha Morrison is the founder of Be the Bridge, which is an organization responding to racial brokenness and systemic injustice in our world. This podcast is an extension of our vision to make sure people are no longer conditioned by a racialized society but grounded in truth. If you have not hit the subscribe button, please do so now. Without further ado, let’s begin today’s podcast. Oh, and stick around for some important information at the end

Audio Clip[Tasha Cobbs singing] Let’s say it together. There is power in the name of Jesus. There is power in the name of Jesus. Say, there is power in the name of Jesus to break every chain, break every chain, break every chain

Latasha Morrison
Be the Bridge community, I am so excited. I have someone on here that I’ve listened to for a while. Had no idea we’ll be face to face on Zoom. But we are. And I am, it’s a pleasure to introduce her if you haven’t heard of her to our community and I know you’re gonna welcome her with loving arms. Miss Tasha Cobbs Leonard, how you doing?

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Awesome. I’m excited to be talking to you today.

Latasha Morrison
I am so grateful that you are here and let me just tell you guys a little bit about Miss Tasha Cobbs Leonard. She’s the pastor’s daughter born and raised in Georgia. She’s the first to emerge to widespread acclaim with her breakout 2013 release Grace, which garnered a Grammy, three Doves, and three Stellar Awards on the strength of it. chart topping platinum selling lead single Break Every Chain. So everybody we we those of you listening? Yes, this is Break Every Chain, Tasha Cobbs. In the years that follow, Leonard would go on to establish herself as a genuine gospel sensation, racking up more than 2 billion streams across platforms. Landed three more number one singles and five number one albums performing with everyone from Common, Nicki Minaj, Neo, Sierra and making national television appearances on Good Morning America, CNN, BT and all the things she is a tireless advocate for empowerment and positivity. She has added author to her resume, actress, entrepreneur and worship leader at The Purpose Place church, and her adopted home of South Carolina, where she co pastors with her husband, producer Kenneth Leonard Jr. So let’s welcome Tasha. Hi. How you doing?

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
I’m doing good on this beautiful day!

Speaker 1
Listen, after reading all of that I need a sip of water like come on, now. Would you have ever thought that God would use you to create this type of impact beyond the music industry.

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
You know, I? I kind of ponder on that question often. And I think I don’t really have a definite answer, but I will say this. I think it’s all a part of a consistent Yes. Like, I’ve been in a season where I was leading worship at my Dad’s church back at home, you know, 150 people there and I was just as passionate, just as committed, just as faithful to that Yes, as I am to all of the ones we have today. So, I don’t know if it was an expectation but I will say that I know where the trust from God has come from, and that’s the faithfulness in every season. So my expectation is whatever you call me to do next it’s a Yes. You know if it’s to go to you know, 150 people or go to Spartanburg to set up church, you know, my answer is Yes, because He’s been so faithful in every other season.

Speaker 1
So you left you, you were living in Georgia, and you left Georgia to start the church in South Carolina.

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Not necessarily. So, I grew up in Georgia.

Latasha Morrison
Okay.

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
I grew up in South East Georgia. So my father started to pasture when I was 10 years old. And Jesup, Georgia is a little small town. It’s about an hour from Savannah, an hour from Jacksonville. So I grew up on the coast. But I moved to Atlanta in 2006.

Latasha Morrison
Okay,

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
And so I operated there for a while as a worship pastor at a church in Atlanta. And in 2017, I got married to Kenneth Leonard

Latasha Morrison
Okay

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
And that’s when I became a Carolina girl. So our first year of marriage, we actually lived in Greensboro, North Carolina.

Latasha Morrison
Okay

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
And then after a year of being there, we moved to South Carolina and we’ve been here for almost five years.

Latasha Morrison
I told you how much we have in common I, I was born and raised in Carolina. So, North Carolina Fayetteville, Fayetteville, North Carolina.

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
My daughter is graduating Fayetteville State May 11.

Latasha Morrison
You see, you see? I Have so many relatives that went to Fayetteville State. So

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Wow.

Latasha Morrison
That is, I’m telling, you. I live in Atlanta now.

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Do ya? I lived in Atlanta for 14 years.

Latasha Morrison
So we just keep missing each other, you know, but I’m not coming to South Carolina, now.

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
You come here and see it though. It’s beautiful. How long have you been in Atlanta?

Latasha Morrison
I’ve been in Atlanta. I moved to Atlanta originally in ’96. And then I left Atlanta in 2012 and moved to Austin, Texas, where this is where I started, Be the Bridge, and then moved back in 2017. So, you were leaving when I was coming back. Yeah, so that is good. So now, you we have, as I was saying there’s so much in common, and I know, you just written a book. And you know, it says Do It Anyway. And listen, and I just remember that’s kind of like a mantra that I kind of quote, like, do it afraid, you know?

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Yeah

Latasha Morrison
You know, if you don’t know what to do, if you’re confused. Just do the next right thing. The next right thing and your book is entitled Do It Anyway. Why did you title your book Do It Anyway?

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Well, I’d love to start here, this is a great question. I’m sure people have this question for me. When in 2013, when I released my album, Grace, I was nominated that you just read it for several awards that year. And there were two of the award shows that were back to back. It was the Stellar Awards, and then the Grammys, that were seven days apart. And I grew up as a pastor’s kid. And it was like what you think, I was down home country. My dad was the pastor who didn’t he was the last one to leave the church. He was turning off the lights. You know, he was turning off the thermostat. He wanted to make sure that the light bill wasn’t going to be $1,000, right? And so I mean, we did vacations from Sunday evenings to Saturday, so that we could be back at church on Sunday. This is how committed he was to being at our local church, and the Stellar Awards were actually on a Sunday. And so I was thinking, oh, man, daddy, not gonna be able to come, we have church. But my parents, they decided to come to the awards that year, which I tell it all the time, that meant more to me than any award to look out and see them. That was such a reward to me, you know, I sang Break Every Chain that night, they gave me 60 seconds, and I said I’m gonna do as much as I can.

Latasha Morrison
And I remember it!

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
During that same time, I was nominated for a Grammy and Daddy kept saying, I’m gonna be with you in Nashville at Stellar. But that is not going to LA but I want you to go anywhere. I want you to go anyway. And so I remember after winning the Stellar Awards, we sat up all night Daddy had us laughing and it was just. First of all, it was unheard of, for him to be there and then he also stayed up laughing and joking with us all night. It was just a night to remember, honestly. And I remember at about 3:30 4:00 o’clock in the morning, they were getting ready to go back to their hotel room, him and my mother and I remember him just beaming with pride. I won three awards that night and he was my I tell people my dad was a carpenter like Jesus. So he had built a curio, like a curio for all of my awards that he knew his baby girl was going to win one day so he had built it and my commitment was to him was that every award that I won, you can take them home with you they’re yours. And so he had all my awards in his hand. I was like Daddy take it out. I want to take a picture of you holding it. So he was standing in front of the elevator, held it up in his hands. And I snapped a picture of him. And that would be the last time I saw my father here on Earth. The next, the next day he went home to be with God. And I just could not forget his voice ringing in my head though, Daddy’s not going to be with you in LA. But I want you to go to the Grammys, anyway, I want you to go anyway. And so I went to the Grammys, and that year, a little country girl from Jesup, Georgia won a Grammy Award for my song Break Every Chain, and I would not have been in the room, you know, my heart was broken. I was, life was just foggy. But the one thing that was clear was that one lesson that my dad left with me that sometimes life is gonna get hard, your heart is going to be broken, you’re going to be confused, but I want you to dig deep within yourself. And Tasha, Daddy wants you to do it anyway. So I get to give that last lesson to all of the people who received this book, Do It Anyway, I give them my the lesson, my dad left with me.

Latasha Morrison
Wow. That’s, that’s powerful. As I was telling you, we share that same grief of losing our fathers, suddenly, you know. And I can tell you’re a daddy’s girl. Yes. Just like me. And you know? Yes, yes. And my, my first book hit New York Times, and my dad was there to actually experience that he was on my last book tour with me..

Speaker 1
He was a part of the book tour. And so he got to see that that like, you know, your father got to see this accomplishment that he knew that was coming. So you know, so proud of you. So as you’re telling this story, you know, I’m thinking of that same story. What are some things? Because you talk about to do it anyways. But what are some things that you hold on that you’re holding tight that your dad taught you that you’re going to leave for your children?

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Yes, the main thing, the main thing, my dad was a man of very few words, like when he spoke, it was gonna be one or two things, it was gonna be either hilarious, or super profound. There was no in between. He didn’t he didn’t talk a lot. However, my mother is the one that’s gonna call you three, four times a day, especially my brother, she and my brother, like, and so I will be on the phone with mom and dad, you know, he would just throw out a little words throughout those stuff. But every time we were in the conversation, he would always, “Say baby, stay at the feet of Jesus.” You know, and as a five, six year old, you don’t technically understand all of what that means but the older I get and the more life happens, just that posture itself, it settles you. That even when life gets hard, you know, I am settled in the fact that God is in control of my life, because I’m committed to staying at his feet. So that was one of the lessons that my father left with me. And of course, this do it anyway. Yeah, you know, and he lived that out. It was, he said that to me verbally, but it was also something that he lived out. I witnessed him come from a childhood of poverty, he would tell us these stories all the time, you know, they, you know, he joked about it, but it was the truth. You know, sometimes having to sleep outside on the porch, sometimes having to share clothing with your your younger siblings. And I remember him making a promise. But my mom tells a story that he made a promise to her that when they got married, I’m gonna build you a house from the ground up, I saw my father, build our home from the ground up the house that I grew up in my high school years. And it took him a while, but he was committed to that promise that he gave her. I saw him build our church from the ground up, you know, I saw him build that community of people. And so it wasn’t just something that he left to me verbally, it was it was a demonstration, he lived the life of do it anyway, before me when the odds were completely stacked against him. Whatever he committed to that was he was going to finish the work. And so, you know, those are some of the lessons that he left for me.

Speaker 1
I love that, Tasha. I love that. And I think it’s so good to honor our elders to honor. And for people like even our audience to to hear the stories of just ordinary everyday black men. Yeah, you know, it counters some of the stereotypes that that we fight against, you know, and so,

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
I talked about that. I didn’t want to interrupt you. But I love that you said that because I talk about that in my book, how you know, in the day and age that my father grew up in, he didn’t have an example before him of black men entrepreneurs or people who are doing because I really feel that if he was just had the right push or the right mentor, he would have been a strong entrepreneur. I mean, he taught leadership in our church and he built our church so well, but I believe that there was so much more had he just had the right person saying hey, if you do it this or you make this decision, you know, so I really, I love what you’re saying. But even in the midst of not having that example before him, he did everything he could to be successful for us. Yeah.

Speaker 1
So if he would have had like that social capital or that access, you know, the, I mean, the sky’s the limit, but look what God did through him, you know what, with what he knew, and I think that’s so many of our stories, I, you know, I’m several years older than you and I tell the story, like, I am the first person in my family with that was born in my immediate family with a full set of rights that, you know, my parents were born into segregation. And so like putting that in perspective, you know, your that could have been the case for your parents, too. Yeah. But you know, we’re only one generation removed, you know, from that when we start talking about systemic racism. And and I think that’s an important part. Your book, you know, shares like a vulnerable part of you. What made this time what made you this time share those experiences in, in this way, like, you know, there’s some things that you’re talking about that you’ve never talked about, you know, what made you really kind of pour your heart out, in this book?

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
I think building an audience of people who trust you, it takes time. I believe that over the years through my music, they’ve had had an opportunity to experience glimpses of my testimony, moments where I was able to share, hey, I was grieved when I wrote this song, or I was on a mountain just excited. It was an exciting season of my life when I wrote that song. But I’ve not had the opportunity to really expound on the testimony on the testimonies that made these songs, or why I can sing the song, Break Every Chain with so much passion and expect chains to be broken in people’s lives. Because I experienced that chain breaking power myself. You know, people don’t have an opportunity to hear those stories. And so I felt like my audience, and the people who have followed me for a while, we’re now in a place where they’re open to receive. I trust you, I trust you with your music, I trust you to be able to lead me into the presence of God. But now I trust your wisdom, and the knowledge that you that you’ve experienced over your lifetime. And I really, really just felt like this pull, that there is more that people want and I felt like this was the season for it. So that’s where we that says, you know, I’m a seasoned kind of person. I believe that you don’t not, I don’t want to move prematurely. And I don’t want to be too late either. I believe being right in the middle of God’s will for our lives is important.

Latasha Morrison
Yeah. And your I mean, your passion and your love of Jesus comes across in your music. I think that’s what what is so attractive, you know, especially the song “Break Every Chain” because you that was a song originally who I forget who originally did that song.

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Jesus Culture

Latasha Morrison
Okay, Jesus Culture was Yeah, so that was

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
It was written by this guy named Will Regan and I had a chance to really meet him and talk with him. Ooh, such a great guy.

Speaker 1
Okay. So Jesus Culture originally, so like, in the spaces that that I’m in and the spaces I was in at that time, I was living in Austin, Texas, and the song, you know, had come out. So a lot of people were familiar with the song through Jesus Culture. And so there was this big conference like called The If Gathering, and there was a girl there. Melinda Doolittle. Do you know her?

Speaker 1
She listen, she did that. Tasha Cobb version, right. And we were we were you know, we were there. This this one. A lot of people had never heard your version.

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Right.

Latasha Morrison
And so you know, when you start singing that part, there’s power in the name of Jesus? Yeah. That part?

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
I hear the chains falling

Latasha Morrison
Yes, I hear the chains falling, Yes. And she’s she did that part as she would like, let me tell you, it was like you were there with her singing that song. And these are, this place. Now, let me tell you, like this last conference, they have 14,000 women 14,000. So in this one, it was probably about at that time, probably about 5000 or so in the audience. And when she said that one of my friends she’s a white lady. She’s like, “I feel like running!” I was like, that’s what that’s what music could do chil’. Like, yeah, put that little you put your little stank on it. You know. And I love that, you know, and I love the versatility of artists and worship leaders, especially African Americans. We can we can do CCM. We can do gospel. We’ll do a country like I mean, because all of that is a part of our story. And so like with you, and I know you do that you but I know people try to box you in right Yeah. So talk about it Tasha, tell us a little bit about why we shouldn’t box as gospel artists in, you know, and why you want to be free to try different, you know, genres of music or different styles.

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Yeah, let me let me just share this. First of all, I grew up on country music. Country music is literally to today, literally one of my favorite genres of music. The storytelling. Say it again?,

Latasha Morrison
I said you heard it here, okay.

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Yeah, I love the storytelling, I love the versatility and the styles of presentation with your vocals. I love the vocal control that has to be used in singing country music. And I love that they make the difficulty of it seems so simplistic. Like it’s, it’s not easy to do. And then here’s the other thing, it was nothing. Me and my cousins, my brother, all of us, we would hang out at my grandmother’s house after school, until our parents would come pick us up, it was nothing to walk in the house and MTV rock and roll is blasting. My brother loves rock music. And so I believe that but all of it is infused with gospel. When you think about it, there is some some part of the foundation of every genre, you’re gonna find that passion, they talk about Aretha and the soul you when you hear soul they got that from gospel music, you know. And so I really feel like it is important to be. And, maybe you don’t sing it all, but just have some type of understanding of the different genres and styles of music. Because the Bible talks about sometimes being all things to all people, I want to be able to relate when I’m in any arena, whether I’m at an award show, or if I’m in the White House, or if I’m in a predominantly black church, or if I’m if I’m in a Christian community, I want to be able to present in a way that the audience that’s in front of me can receive my ministry presentation, and still be authentically me. You know, that’s what I pray that my life has been. And that’s been my intentionality to present that in myself in so many different ways. So I Have an album. I did it’s called Royalty. I recorded it at the Ryman. And there were there were several songs on that album that just have like this country vibe. We did like the piccolo guitar. And it was just I wanted to go back to some of my roots in that. That’s not always just gospel music, you know. And so I pulled on that country side that my mom used to listen to all the time. So I just love versatility and music. Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 1
I love it, I think is a beautiful thing. I think diversity in the genre is something that is welcome. I like to tell people on the other side of eternity, you think we’re just gonna be singing like gospel, Elevation or Maverick City, like do you think that’s all you’re going to hear?

Latasha Morrison
Like, I mean, think about it globally, music globally, is, you know, outside of our American culture, if we’re talking about we’re part of a global faith, Christianity, global faith. And so there are going to be aspects of things that we’re not used to hearing, you know, likely, you know, the tribes and in India, and you know, Africa and all these places that we’re not used to hearing. And so I think we have to really start thinking outside of the box, and really stop believing that this is your lane, you need to stay in this lane, and this person needs to stay in this lane and this thing, person need to stay in this lane and let God use people the way God wants to use people, you know, because you never know who you’re going to encounter, and who you’re going to help, you know, through that. Now, you talk about, you know, just we have a ministry within Be the Bridge for transracial adoptees, you know, you’re not a transracial adoptee. But you you have adopted and I want to, I want you to talk a little bit to share a little bit with our community. And one reason why I want to share that is because a lot of times, people you know, there are a lot of kids that are up for adoption, but like you and I, you know, and we don’t even have time to get into the systemic issues of even that reason, you know, but we we do adopt, and we also take care of our family members, you know, so that they don’t get put up for adoption. So there’s a lot of that in our community. I really talk about some of that experience with our audience. And your your son Asher.

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Yes, I love this conversation. I think I have to just kind of go back to a little bit more of a story. My husband and I. I have endometriosis. And so for about two years, we tried doing having a given natural birth and having a baby and we just could not conceive. And so I went to a doctor to find out that I had severe endometriosis. And so for a year, we would fly from North Carolina to Houston, so that I can receive an injection to clear the endometriosis from my body. And so imagine that, that just imagine how that wears that in itself just wear on your body or your spirit. And so after about a year of doing that, the doctor said, You should be in a space now where it’s clear enough for you to do the in vitro of you decide. And so we decided to go with IVF. And you know, I’m a church girl. So you know, coming here, like, you gonna have a baby, God’s goin’ to give you a baby. You know, and I tell the story this way, I have a friend who talks about this that, you know, sometimes we hear God’s will and we don’t stick around to hear His way. And so, you know, we tried to devise our way and create God’s way. And so that’s what my husband and I did, we say, we’re gonna go IVF, we’re going to do this. And so we went through the IVF. And we lost the embryo, we had one embryo and we lost that baby. And I was devastated. My heart was broken. And I just be very honest, my faith was shaken. Because here, here I am thinking you’ve sent all these people to us telling us we’re going to have a baby. And where’s the promise? I can’t create eggs anymore. We used the one embryo that we had. And so here we are, we have a promise. And that’s all we have. And I remember a few months after that my husband he came in, he had a conversation with me. He said, Baby, what do you think about adoption? And I literally did not just hear my husband’s voice. I heard this being God’s way. Like, hey, this is the way that He desires for us to, you know, fulfill this prophecy. And so I remember us going through the process. And I said, often I didn’t have like the normal natural labor, but I had labor, you know, we went through labor, because adoption is not always easy, and you don’t know what’s at the other end, you don’t know, if you’re gonna get in the middle of a process and a birth mother changes her mind, you don’t know how this is going to how it’s gonna go. You don’t know if you’re going to, if your family is gonna pass all of the tests that you have to go through. And so we were in a season of labor for about six months. And then it’s so good to have people in your corner, where when you can’t think clearly, see clearly, or even hear God, clearly, they can hear for you. And we had an agent who was just, she was so beautiful, she was just a gift from God, who would just keep us encouraged the entire time. She would just sometimes send us prayers and just uplift us, “Hey, you know, God’s gonna come through, there’s a beautiful baby at the other end of this for you, I believe for you.” And just having her there was such an amazing experience for us. And so we turned in our paperwork, we created our profile. And we submitted our profile to four agencies, four agencies. And she said, we’re just going to wait now. Now, this is the season of waiting. And just she was very honest, because there are some people who may have experienced this, who may be watching now that some people have waited two years, you know, four years, and there are people who have never gotten a child through the adoption process. And so she was very honest, that, you know, sometimes this could take a long time, and sometimes it may not. And three days later, this is our miracle testimony, three days later, she called us and she said, “I don’t know this, this has happened. And all of my 20 years in working in this system, I’ve never seen this.” She said there was a mother who walked into an agency in Louisiana. And I don’t know how this agency got your information, it was not one of the four that we applied to. And she said, You are one of seven families that she’s going to be choosing from for this baby boy. And she said it’s an African American baby boy, fits the profile. And she said your profile fits everything that she desires for her, the child that she’s carrying. And so we’re sitting there like, of course, you know, there’s so many thoughts going through your head like, okay, is this real? You know, is this gonna be let down? We didn’t want to get too excited, you know? And, and she said, she said, “Kenny, I really, really feel like you should sit and write a handwritten letter to the mother.” And so my husband, he came to the office, and he wrote a letter, telling the story about how we had been trying to have a baby and how our other children were excited about receiving a sibling. And in then they screenshot it and they sent it to this birth mother. And the next day, the next day, they called and said, she’s chosen you guys. I mean, we literally just sat in silence for like, it’s just, it’s unbelievable, how God can come through when you’re in His will, you know? And so we sat there and we’re thinking this is real? Is she gonna change her mind? And we had an opportunity to have a couple of conversations with her and in one of them my husband asked her “You know, what was the one thing? You know if it was just one thing that made you choose us? What was that? And her response was, I was reading your letter. And she said, as as I was reading the letter you wrote me. She said, the baby started kicking. She said, I didn’t choose you. He did. And I mean. Four weeks later, four weeks later, Asher was born and we picked up our baby boy from the hospital. And he’s been with us almost three years now being with us almost as good with us.

Advertisement[Latasha sharing about Be the Bridge] Hello, listeners, welcome to the Be the Bridge community. This is Latasha Morrison, and I am the founder and CEO of the nonprofit organization, Be the Bridge, and the author of the book entitled to Be the Bridge, and the host of this wonderful podcast. I am so glad that you are here. You see Be the Bridge responds to racial brokenness and systemic injustice in our world, and believes understanding can move us toward racial healing, racial equity, and racial reconciliation. This podcast is an extension of our vision to make sure people are no longer conditioned by racialized society, but we are grounded in truth. We have provided this podcast as a resource to help cultivate courageous conversations, and equip all to flourish, you will find interviews from a variety of thought leaders, faith leaders, and business leaders, as well as authors, artists, activists, and athletes. You will be encouraged, you will be challenged, but most of all, you will be changed. So go ahead and subscribe to the Be the Bridge podcast on your favorite podcast players, so you don’t miss out on any of these helpful and hopeful conversations.

Speaker 1
Now hearing that backstory, not knowing all the things that you were going through and hearing that backstory that those of you who follow you on social media or anything, you know, it’s like you saw a baby and you’re like, Okay, what? Because I thought oh, maybe it was a nephew, you know, just like cuz glancing through.

Speaker 1
Wow, like, that’s incredible. I mean, you you talk about so much, you know, in your some of your chapters in your book you talk about in the midst of grief in the pursuit of passion, battling giants in love, in times of despair, in waiting, and you know, some of that, I’m pretty sure, you know, as you talked about and waiting, and then you say unfulfilled dreams. And then the last chapter, you say in the limelight.

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Yes!

Latasha Morrison
You know, tell me a little bit about that and the pressures of that. And you know, and why you wrote that chapter.

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Yeah, because I feel like in the world that we live in the glitz and the glamour and the “Lights, Camera, Action!” can seem it can be so enticing. Yeah, you know, especially now with social media. And it looks like everybody is just living on a mountain and here I am in the slums, you know, that’s what it’ll make you feel it. And the truth is that a lot of times, when you’re in the spotlight, when you’re in the limelight, it requires… I am church goe, I have to say like this, to whom much is given, much is required. You carry such a weight. You know, there were seasons where I went through depression, where I couldn’t, I couldn’t share it. You know, I couldn’t tell anybody because everybody expected this, this perfection from “Oh, this is the break every chain girl” and you know, give me more and more and more. I want to be healed. I want to be set free. And I remember going to concerts and singing that song and watching people be delivered. Watching families be healed and mended and I would go home for days in the dark with the curtains closed under the comforter, literally struggling with depression, anxiety and fear. But you don’t see that you see the limelight. You know, you see the awards and you see the pretty dresses, but a lot of times it’s a huge weight to carry. And sometimes you don’t feel like getting up doing it. You don’t feel lik,e you know, getting up singing the song that’s going to uplift everybody. And here you are in this place where you’re not so happy and you don’t feel the joy. And so I wanted to to write that chapter for those people who may now now you’re walking out this career that you’ve wanted all of these years, you’re walking out the promise. And now the challenge that you face is the promise, the promise is, it’s heavy, it’s weighty. And it’s not all of this rah rah rah, joy, joy, joy that everybody thought it would be. But now is your answer still, yes? When you have to carry this major weight when people’s eyes are on you, and they’re expecting this and expecting that you got to meet this deadline, and the timeline is just adding up, you know, so I wanted to write that chapter for those people who are now I’m in the midst of the promise, I’m in this place that was promised to me. And now this is even harder than the process, you know, just carrying all of the weight that comes with the limelight. And so that’s what I want to be an encouragement to even those people who, you know, like you. We’re on Be the Bridge right now. And, you know, there are so many things that come along with carrying this humongous weight that people don’t get to see. And I would, I would never take an opportunity to write a book like this, and withhold even that from the people who were reading it. I’m grateful that you brought that up. I love that chapter. Yeah.

Speaker 1
Because like, you know, when you do heavy lifting, or you’re in hard work, sometimes, you know, like, like you said, you you, although you were speaking singing about hope, you were feeling hopeless, you know? You were in the valley of despair. And sometimes that happens.

Latasha Morrison
And I think, really, as we talk about that, I’ve been trying to be honest about like, where I am, as you deal with grief. And as you heal forward and talking about, hey, you know what, this is a difficult season, you know, this is this is like to be in this space of racial healing right now, is hard, because it does feel hopeless, you know, about fighting through knowing who our hope is in and not just looking at the tangible things. And so I think you do a great job of helping create tools and resources for us to look, look beyond our circumstances, to look beyond what we see. And it’s a reminder of whose we are and who we see. And I think that’s the thing where where music that uplifts and things and now you’re, you’re writing words, you know, to go along with that, and I was looking at this Tasha, I was like, every last one of these songs is a title to a song

Speaker 1
That’s a title right there. Like, right there. And that’s what it kind of seemed like, it seemed like a you were charting music, you know

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Wow, Yeah,

Latasha Morrison
Charting music and, and everything, who, you know, we all have people that we look up to, and who has been an empowering voice to you, in your career, you know, especially as a, as a black woman who, who has been, who has helped empower you? and to help, like, carry you into this place that you’re in now?

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
You know, I love this question. And it’s gonna seem like a simple answer. But I have to be honest, my mother.

Latasha Morrison
I love it.

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
My mother is somebody said something the other day, and it just really, really stuck with me that she’s still We don’t think about it this way. They said, you’re still raising her. And it may be in a different way. Now that I’m an adult but she still covers me. She’s the one who when I’ve been on tour for a while, she’ll show up in my house and say, I need to look in your eyes. I wanted to you can say anything to me, but I want to see your face, you know, and so she’s the one who knows the truth. That you know that that that pure Tasha, that hey, I’m tired, right?

Latasha Morrison
Yeah.

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
And I may not be able to say it to everybody, but you can see straight through. She knows the words to say she’s my ultimate cheerleader. Not just mine. I tell everybody my mom may not even know you. But she’s your biggest cheerleader. My mother believes in everybody. It just to have her in my corner. It’s just, It’s just incredible. And I think too when I think about that, it’s the fact that she’s known me and she’s still proud. So that means when she looks at the Tasha she sees now it’s the same Tasha she birthed that I didn’t allow all of the things that have come with life to change me to, to penetrate that foundation that she and my dad created, that she still sees what she poured in me and that makes me proud cause I wanted to look at me and see, wow, my baby girl grew up and she took all of the lessons we taught her and she’s really, really using them to help other people grow. So it’s my mom.

Speaker 1
I love it. I love it. There you go again, let’s lifting up our elders, giving them their flowers while they are with us. And I think it’s fine when you go through things like we’ve gone through. You appreciate people like that, especially the parent you have left you.

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Yeah. Oh, yeah,

Latasha Morrison
You really see that, you know, sometimes they get into your skin, but you’re like, you know what, they’re not gonna always be here with us.

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Right, right. I told somebody the other day, I was talking to him, I was like, I now the roles have switched. I know, he just said, You raising me, but I’m raising you.

Speaker 1
Yeah, I was doing that I have to actually, tomorrow, take my mom to get a colonoscopy. And I have to tell her how to do this for years, you know, and I just have to get home and you feel like, I’m like, I’m raising you. Let’s do it. I say like, you know what?

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Do what I say

Speaker 1
But she’s doing it. And I’m so grateful that she’s doing it. So, you know, this is the thing I am, I’m also I have a book, your book is coming out May 7, okay? My book comes out May 21st. You see the Tasha? Tasha? Tasha. Yes. And in this book I talk about a lot about systemic racism it’s called Brown Faces, White Spaces. And, and so I want to know, like, you know, just being in one of those areas I talk about is entertainment. You know, have you dealt with any racism within the entertainment industry? And would you mind sharing, you know, what, that looked like for you? Yeah.

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Yeah, absolutely, I, um, I love that the title Be the Bridge, because my, my mentor, William Murphy, I remember when I moved to Atlanta in 2006, he would say, or it was MySpace at the time, and he would get on and post a picture of me and say, Hey, this is my daughter, and she’s a bridge to the nations. And at the time, I didn’t understand what he was saying, you know, until Break Every Chain came out. And it began to cross over into different cultures, different nationalities, you know, it was everybody, you know, was singing this song, “There’s power in the name of Jesus to break every chain.” And so I started getting invited into white spaces, like your like your book says. And I remember, I’m a Pentecostal Holiness girl. So all I got is, you know, it’s me it and so I’m supposed to be all things to all people, I can only be authentically me. So you got the raw, you got the stand up and lift your hand. And people were loving me being me. But then I started to notice, you know, that when I would go into the predominantly white spaces or white churches, you don’t see a lot of brown people who were trusted with and entrusted with spaces of authority. So yeah, you can sing in the choir. Yeah, you can worship on the worship team. But we want to, we don’t want to give you too much of authority. And so I started thinking, man, is this what being a bridge to the nations is about? Because I don’t see a lot of progress, even though it’s 2006, 2009, 2012. It’s looking more like the 60s over here. And so I remember, just having lots of conversations with different mentors about it, CeCe Winans is a mentor of mine. And I will admit, I would just watch her life, how she even navigated through those spaces very, very well. And I would ask a lot of questions. And even you know, even for me, personally, I remember going into different places I got now notice that as you brought this up with so many because it’s been so many years I’ve been entrusted to be one of those voices to bridge those gaps. And just recently, last year, I went on a tour, it’s it was called “It’s Time.” And so it was me, Natalie Grant, and Naomi Raine, Taya from Hillsong, who’s actually from Australia. So you got all of this diversity. And I really felt like God wanted to do something, not just for the audience that was before us but even for us. So being able to have those hard conversations behind the scenes, and we did you know, those I think a lot of times privilege comes with with being able to deny it or ignore it. So there are some privileges that are afforded to our white sisters and brothers that they don’t even know to put a focus on. And so you have podcasts like Be the Bridge, who puts it in their faces but also educates while doing it. And I feel like that tour gave me an opportunity not to and I’ll be honest with you, too, that sometimes we have in the black community we can learn a lot of things as well. Like our approach I learned not to be so offended because honestly, I’m looking and your privilege, it has blinded you. So you really don’t know what you just said, you don’t know what you just did. So, why would I confronted with aggression? Instead of, hey, let me educate you in this area, what you just said it was offensive to me and this is why. You know, I feel like it taught us as well, those of us who are, who are black, who were on the tour, okay, this is what the way you can approach this because your sister really don’t know what she just did, she really doesn’t know that it was offensive. And so we had an opportunity to have some very hard conversations. And I believe that we all left that tour better, not just the people who received songs, and they received breakthrough. But we also left as better people having a deeper conversation and deeper fellowship with one another. And my commitment that if I, if I have to do it, one by one, I’m committed to being a part of this change. I’m committed to being a part of being someone who helps helps others become better at bridging this gap. So I’ve ran into it. And I know you probably, we could get into this conversation

Latasha Morrison
Yes, so good!

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Yeah, because of some of the things that I’ve seen where now. And when I, when I visited those predominantly white churches from when it was 2010. Seeing what I saw, I can honestly testify that going into into some of the predominantly black white churches now you see more African Americans who have voices of authority, and they’re being trusted with microphones, and they’re being trusted to share their hearts and their minds. And I can take pride in saying I believe I played a major part in being able to help to bridge that gap.

Latasha Morrison
Because it, music is powerful, it does change it does, it does connect us, you know, that’s bridges and what you were doing on that tour, that’s bringing people who wouldn’t necessarily be in the same audience together, you know, because like people who are necessarily fans of Tasha Cobb, may not be friends of I forget who, you said, Natalie Grant, Natalie Grant, Tasha Cobbs like, but that bridging what you were doing, you you guys were actually being the bridge. And that’s really how what we did started it, it was like, you know, local church girl, like wanting to have these conversations, because you’re my brothers and sisters. And I don’t want you going out like that, like, I was gonna take it that you just don’t know, you know,

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
You don’t know.

Latasha Morrison
But it’s because you are a bridge builder, Tasha, you know, because everybody, that’s not everyone, you know, it’s okay, because we need a variety of different people. You know, we need some people that’s gonna burn it down. And then and then on the other side of that everybody’s not going to educate you, you know?

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Yes, right.

Latasha Morrison
And so don’t, don’t think that everybody is required to educate you, but those of us who are bridge builders, that know that we are called into various spaces, then it is, you know, we have to do that work of bridging. And so, like you said, like, the audience got one thing, but you got another thing, and it takes a lot of humility, you know, and so, you know, you talked about, like, you know, denying a lot of that’s a lot, I call it deny, defend, and deflect, and those are the things that you don’t, but if you have an open heart, and you walk, you’re walking in humility, especially as, as as, as a Christ follower, your compassion, and your empathy should cause you to walk in humility, to be able to receive, you know, instruction from your brothers and sisters that are saying, I’m hurting. And this is why,

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Wow, yeah.

Latasha Morrison
You know? And so we are supposed to rejoice with those who rejoice and you know, and those who are suffering, we are also suffering because we’re connected. We’re one body, you know, one body with many parts and so, I am so grateful for you what is bringing you hope right now in this season that you’re in? What is bringing you hope? We need it! Like, you know, there’s a lot of things to, for us to be in despair about, but what is bringing you hope? And what can you communicate to our community right now, about that hope?

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
My husband and I, we, we talked about it earlier, we actually started pastoring a church we just celebrated four years, a four year anniversary at our church. We started in the pandemic. So our church for two and a half years, we were literally just virtual online just like this. And I am, I experienced… It’s crazy to say that because our vision is to restore hope to the community. Oh, and I mentioned that a few moments ago if I have to do it person by person, one by one. And pastoring this community of people has given us an opportunity to watch people grow and develop. It is such, it’s so rewarding, but it’s humbling as well, that God will use us to weekly be able to pour into a group of people and help push them further towards purpose. And I know it may start with a small assembly of people, you know, we have a we have about four or 500 people show up every week now. And it’s grown into that. And that alone is mind blowing.

Latasha Morrison
Yeah,

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
But to watch their children and watch their families and their, their, you know, their cousins come and then the aunts come because one person was changed, they go back and tell somebody else. I said all the time that the word of mouth is still the greatest marketing tool there will ever, ever be. And I think just being able to share that, “Hey, this one place. Me going to this one service, hearing this one word changed my life.” And then you go tell somebody at work, or you go tell somebody in the grocery store and spread the news. I think that is the that is what the scripture talks about when it says go into the hedges and the highway. My story alone is compelling. You know, you writing your book that’s compelling people to want to know more about Christ. Me writing my book is compelling people and then to stand in front of this small congregation of people every week, and know that they’re going to go out and compel somebody that is giving me hope. It’s causing me because I will be honest, I will be honest, there was a season with so much exposure to industry, and to, you know, to people who lacked integrity, or you know, people who have just misused and abused people. I will be honest, going into pastoring, I learned one thing about myself, that I was losing hope. I had lost hope in people, I had lost faith and trust in the good of people. But being able to have community with these amazing people has restored my hope. I need to tell that to my husband, I never shared that with him. Because I think restoring hope to the community we’re thinking about all the other people were touched. But honestly, my hope is being restored to this community of people.

Latasha Morrison
Restoring hope a friend of mine, she has a mental health business and it’s called Restoring Hope and that I think that’s a beautiful thing and you know, you’re on tour. you’re launching a book, you’re leading a church, okay? You are, how do you rest? Like, how how are you resting? How you rest? This is this is Auntie Tasha talking about how do you rest?

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Right, I love to sleep. It’s one of my favorite things to do. Asher runs in the room “Wake up, mommy! Wake up!” But I think it has to be prioritized. I’ve not always been this way. I was once the person who lived in the future, lived for what’s next. Super ambitious, wanting the next place of success to be fulfilled. And I realized that even through mothering a little bit more now, you know to Don’t be so serious. Tasha, sit down, calm down, everything’s gonna work out. And so I’m in a place now I’m 42 years old, when I hit 40, something else, just something happened where I was like, Girl, relax, you know, it’s gonna work out. You know, I used to be all up in arms, but now I’m just committed to resting in. And I think rest is not always about sleeping. But I rest in the fact that everything that my hands touch, it is something that I’m called to. And I think people get weary and restless, when you’re trying to do things you were never called to, I am committed to only being involved in those things that I know is a part of my purpose in the earth. And that means with that I can rest in it, I can relax, I can calm down. So, if I were to leave any advice for those that you might be younger or older, wherever you fit in this, if you’re younger, find your purpose, find that thing that you’re passionate about, that aligns with what you, what you are drawn to, and rest in that. And don’t allow anybody to force you to connect with to be a part of anything that’s not aligned with your purpose in the earth. And then you will be able to rest in the things that you do.

Latasha Morrison
That’s so good. So good, thank you for sharing that. Thank you for your time. Thank you for writing these words. It’s gonna help so many people. Thank you for singing words, that helped so many people and so we will be praying for you at Be the Bridge and you so I mean, we knew this a little bit, you know, just in the spaces. I was like she’s a bridge builder because everybody can’t do it can’t navigate you know,

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Wow, yeah.

Latasha Morrison
In various spaces and everybody’s not called to do that, you know. We appreciate you and you have a community of people praying for you. And just congratulations on the book May the seveth you guys you can purchase this book where all books are sold. You can also pre order now. I’m not sure we’ll find out where this is coming out, but you can pre order her book and follow her on social media and we’ll post all of that a post when the show comes out. So, thank you so much, Tasha Cobbs for joining us on the Be the Bridge podcast. We are so grateful for your work with your ministry.

Tasha Cobbs Leonard
Thank you. Absolutely beautiful. I love you. I love you very much. Thank you so much.

Narrator
Thanks for listening to to Be the Bridge podcast. To find out more about the Be the Bridge organization and or to become a bridge builder in your community. Go to BetheBridge.com Again, that’s BetheBridge.com. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, remember to rate and review it on this platform and share it with as many people as you possibly can. You can also connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Today’s show was edited, recorded and produced by Trayvon Potts at Integrated Entertainment Studios in metro Atlanta, Georgia. The host and executive producer is Latasha Morrison. Lawrence D Brown is the Senior Producer and transcribed by Sarah Connatser. Please join us next time. This has been a Be the Bridge production.