Ep 289 | “Welcome to the Basement” with Tim Ross

Narrator
You are listening to the Be the Bridge Podcast with Latasha Morrison.

Latasha Morrison[intro] How are you guys doing today? It’s exciting!

Narrator
Each week, Be the Bridge Podcast tackles subjects related to race and culture with the goal of bringing understanding.

Latasha Morrison[intro] …but I’m gonna do it in the spirit of love.

Narrator
We believe understanding can move us toward racial healing, racial equity, and racial unity. Latasha Morrison is the founder of Be the Bridge, which is an organization responding to racial brokenness and systemic injustice in our world. This podcast is an extension of our vision to make sure people are no longer conditioned by a racialized society but grounded in truth. If you have not hit the subscribe button, please do so now. Without further ado, let’s begin today’s podcast. Oh, and stick around for some important information at the end.

Latasha Morrison
Be the Bridge community, listen! I got a treat for you. Some of y’all are gonna be surprised. Others of you are gonna fall out your chair. But I have Mr. Tim Ross in the house, all the way from The Basement. All the way from his book launch. We have him right here up close and personal. He’s in his basement, I’m in my so-called office. (laughter) If you don’t know about Tim, he is a professional podcaster, social media influencer, author, preacher and businessman. I’m sure you’ve heard of his podcast “The Basement,” if you haven’t you need to go follow it, and seen him on social media doing all the things. I was just telling him we need some of your joy bombs right about now. You’re refreshing to follow online. He just recently released a book, and it’s called Welcome to the Basement: An Upside Down Guide to Greatness. We’re excited to have you on the Be the Bridge Podcast!

Tim Ross
Latasha. I’m so honored to be here with you. Thank you so much for trusting me on your platform.

Latasha Morrison
Yeah, yeah. I’m so glad to have you. You are just refreshing. And one thing I know about you, just getting to know you over the last few months, is that you are the real deal.

Tim Ross
Thank you.

Latasha Morrison
You are the real deal. And I appreciate that. You know? Those of you who listen if you follow The Basement, who he is, that’s who he is. You know? And I love it. I love how you love people, how you are that cheerleader for people. You’re also that challenger for people. And, then in a lot of ways you’re that, for those that you mentor, you remind them of that consciousness that they need to have. And so I am glad to have you here. And your story in some ways is not like mine, but I mean, some of our stories are similar in some kind of, in some ways, as far as how you started out in a predominately African American church. You started out at Potter’s House.

Tim Ross
Yep.

Latasha Morrison
And then you transition into Gateway Church South Lake.

Tim Ross
That’s correct. Yeah.

Latasha Morrison
Okay, you know, you have this thing called, you know, Coming in Hot.

Tim Ross
Yes, ma’am. (laughter)

Latasha Morrison
And it says, you’re gonna be honest, open, and transparent.

Tim Ross
Absolutely.

Latasha Morrison
I think Mike Todd reads it in your intro. He says, “humble.”

Tim Ross
He uses humble. He had to change it to make it a little bit his.

Latasha Morrison
(laughter) But listen, listen, learning that about you, I was like, what was that transition like for you?

Tim Ross
Well, as you mentioned, right, two amazing churches in the DFW Metroplex just about 30 miles apart. I would say I won the human lottery of churches. Right? I won the church lottery. I got to go to like an amazing blackity Black church.

Latasha Morrison
Right.

Tim Ross
And then like an amazing whitey whitey church. Right? And I never had to leave the Metroplex to do either one. And so I learned a lot of stuff from Potter’s House. And obviously, you know, Potter’s House is quintessential Pentecostal Black church culture. Right? And then Gateway is very traditional post-Baptist, Spirit-filled, white culture.

Latasha Morrison
Okay.

Tim Ross
And a lot of people thought that I wound up in culture shock when I went from Potter’s House to Gateway. And surprisingly, what they found out, and they only could find this out when I told them, was that my response to, “Oh my goodness, what was it like to go from like a predominately Black church to a predominately white church?” And my response was, “I felt like I was switched at birth.” When I got to Gateway, I felt way more at home than I ever was at Potter’s House.

Latasha Morrison
Wow, wow.

Tim Ross
In terms of thinking wavelength. And then in terms of like, approach theologically, I was way more Gateway than I was PH. So even though there was a, obviously there was a huge cultural difference in terms of ethnicity, right, and expression, in terms of belief and thinking wavelength, I was way more Gateway than I was PH.

Latasha Morrison
Wow. See? You heard that here. And I think it has shaped you.

Tim Ross
Oh for sure.

Latasha Morrison
And really helped you, it’s a part of The Basement.

Tim Ross
It is.

Latasha Morrison
And we talk about The Basement. Can you explain, I know, some people haven’t gotten your book? We’re gonna talk about that in a little bit, but like, explain what is The Basement? And why do you call your podcast, Welcome to the Basement?

Tim Ross
Yeah, so I was given a vision when I was 30 years old, when I was still a young adult pastor at the Potter’s House. And, you know, a vision is not deep. A vision is basically a dream, but you’re awake. Right? So I had this vision and the nutshell of the vision, Latasha, is that there was a 100 story building. And I went up to the top of that 100 story building, and what I intrinsically knew is that everybody up top was a very significant, important person in the body of Christ. But they were nameless and faceless. I couldn’t determine who they were. But intrinsically, I knew this is a very important or significant person in the body of Christ. But everybody on that 100th floor had compromised their character and integrity to be up there. They had some sin, some weight, some vice, that had compromised who God had really called them to be. And so when I got back on the elevator to go back down to the lobby of this, of this very tall building, I saw a B going down that I didn’t see going up. And so I wound up going down 101 stories, and the people that had character and had integrity, again, not perfect people. Nobody on the top floor was perfect. Nobody on the bottom floor was perfect. But the people on the bottom, I wish I had this language earlier because it would be in the book. But what I know to be true now is that all of those people in the basement were congruent people. They were people of integrity. And I know we use that word a lot. But integral means that it’s intact, it’s together. When something is integrated, all the pieces fit in there together. When something or someone is disintegrated, it means that things are not together. And so these people in the basement had a mindset to live as integrated people. Who you see is who you get. And so after I had that vision, I asked the Lord, “What does this really mean?” And he said, “Tim, everybody thinks that the goal is get to the top, but I’ve actually called my people to get down to the bottom.” What I now know to be the basement. And then he said, “If Jesus Christ is the chief cornerstone, what floor would you want to live on?” And I said, “I want to stay down here with you, Lord.” And he said, “Then get as many people to the basement as you can.” And I was 30 years old when I had this vision at the time. And at the time, I just thought, “Okay, anybody I’ve mentored or discipled, they’re going to hear, they’re going to hear the same story that I just told you.” I had no idea that He meant it for hundreds of thousands of people. And for it to become a book and for it to become a community. So I was not prepared for that.

Latasha Morrison
And what is that community like? Because it’s like, it sounds like just that same vision of, you know, how I came about with Be the Bridge. It was just dropped in my spirit. So what is that community, what has that community been like transitioning out of your pastoral roles, transitioning into still a pastoral role, but an unorthodox pastoral role, what has it been like?

Tim Ross
Yeah, so it’s been, it’s been an eye opening experience, to say the least. Right? After being in ministry for 27 years, and you know, getting a burden from God to preach sermons, and to go from standing up preaching to sitting down “podding”, as I call it. And to be told, and really instructed by the Holy Spirit, the same way that you speak in private, when you mentor and disciple people is now the way I want you to speak publicly. That scared me to death. Because I was like, “Lord, you know how I talk privately.” I was like, so I’m gonna get canceled. And I felt like the Holy Spirit’s response was like, “Go ahead and get canceled.” And I guess, in some ways I did, which hurt my feelings. But when I tell you, it introduced me to an audience that I would have never gotten in touch with, and would have never heard the gospel and would have never been open if I just kept that pastor’s cadence that I had while I was a preacher. And so I have gladly made myself of no reputation and decided to go after, what I affectionately call the highways, byways, bushes and shrubs.

Latasha Morrison
And I know what it’s like, you know, Tim, to be misunderstood. And I watch you, and you are such a lifeline for a lot of, specifically people of color, but also, I would say, white people. I was with you, we were in, I think it was downtown Fort Worth, we were going to a restaurant. And we’re walking through there and this guy stops you, this white guy at a bar stops you and was like, “Man, I follow your podcast; I follow your work.” It’s like, just unexpected. So it’s like, you never know who’s watching, who’s following, and everything. And you said this, I was listening, you said, “I’m not for everyone.”

Tim Ross
I’m not.

Latasha Morrison
You’re like, “And I may say some things that you don’t like. And like, you can go and listen to all these other people.” You named some people.

Tim Ross
Yeah.

Latasha Morrison
And you’re like, “But this is how The Basement is going down.” And that was it. And you kept it moving.

Tim Ross
Yup. Yeah, well, you know, everybody, I feel like everybody, every human being on earth has a desire and a right to be seen, heard, known, loved, even if they’re disagreed with. Every human deserves to be seen, every human deserves to be heard. Even if you don’t agree with what they’re saying, don’t cut them off. I mean, think about what our culture has produced. Right? Whether we’re talking in sacred circles or secular circles, we’ve produced talking heads, we have not produced listeners. We have not produced listening heads. People can’t even get a full sentence out. That’s why they talking so fast. Because I’m trying to get my complete thought out before you cut me off with your opinion on what you feel. And so I feel like everybody deserves to be seen, heard, fully known for who they are. Right? It’s the b clause of Proverbs 4:7. I have everything kind of memorized in King James. But, “Wisdom is the principal thing, therefore get wisdom. And with all thy getting, get an understanding.” I want to fully know you. So that means I have to shut up. I have to fully hear you out and let the fullness of your thoughts be known. And once I fully know you, I can love you for who you are, where you are.

Latasha Morrison
That’s good.

Tim Ross
So it’s a beautiful thing to give somebody. And then, we still get to have the self differentiation to say, “But I don’t agree with you. Like, I see you. I hear you. I know you now. And I love you. But I don’t agree with you.” And that’s life. I don’t agree with myself sometimes.

Latasha Morrison
Right. Right. And I love how you even talk about that when you said I don’t agree with myself. It made me think about, you talk about, you know how you wrote a book before. And you were like, basically, you’ve reimagined that. And so you talk about, you know, kind of like, “Put that book out your head.” You know, because I think back to even some interviews I’ve done and things I wrote like, you know, seven, eight years ago. We evolve. We should be. We should.

Tim Ross
Should be. Better be.

Latasha Morrison
And then there may be some things that we said or did that we’re like, “Wait a minute,, I have more wisdom now. I have more clarity. I would say that different now. Or I didn’t think that.” I like how you own that. And you talk about that. Could you tell us a little bit about what you mean when you say that, from your first book to now?

Tim Ross
Yeah, so that first book was called Upset the World. And that’s based on the revelation He gave me about, you know, the Bible being the most upsetting book that’s ever been written, Jesus living the most upsetting life that’s ever been lived. By definition, the word upset does not mean to anger, frustrate. It actually means to turn over, to turn upside down. And so I believe that on January 14, of ’96, when I gave my life to Jesus, my life was turned upside down. And I spend my life upsetting others. It’s like the best, it’s my privilege to partner with the Holy Spirit to upset somebody else’s life. But when that book came out in 2020, it was fumbled by the publisher. And, you know, in a very, what I feel like providential set of circumstances, I was given full rights back to that book. And so when I was able to pray through the opportunity I was given by Nelson to bring this book back to the market, I realized that the full integration of this revelation of upsetting people would not be appreciated without the revelation of The Basement.

Latasha Morrison
Got it.

Tim Ross
And so being able to marry those two main themes of my life, and reintroduce this book is the thing I get to go around the country and promote right now.

Latasha Morrison
Yeah, and as you guys hear this, Tim just launched his book. He’s out there. He was in New York, he’s promoting this book. He tired. He has all these things going on. He’s a dad, he’s a husband. And he’s a friend and a brother and uncle to so many, to so many. And just to be honest here, he’s dealing with a loss. You’re actively dealing with grief, like so many of us. One of the things you said the other day when you were on, and Tim, it just resonated with me because I said the same thing the same way. After I lost my dad in 2021 to COVID. And I remember just saying the only thing I can say to bring the words is like, “My daddy gone.”

Tim Ross
Yeah.

Latasha Morrison
And let me tell you and I just say, and even now, I will say that. Like, “My daddy is not here. My daddy gone.” And just saying it just like that. Because I say daddy, that’s southern.

Tim Ross
That’s right. That’s right.

Latasha Morrison
And when you said that, I was like, oh my God. It was like my spirit just connected with you like, yeah. But it’s like, he’s gone, but he’s here.

Tim Ross
Yeah. Yeah, he is gone. I like to use the word and as much as I can. I don’t like using buts a lot. Ands are a great integrater. It’s a great conjunction to integrate negative realities. And so, as of the time of us talking, my daddy died five days ago now. Five days ago. Not weeks. Not months. Days. And the last five days has been like, it has been filled with grief and crying and laughing and a strange emptiness. But above all of those adjectives I can give, the last five days I have an incomprehensible peace. I have been in church all my life. I’ve been saved for 28 years. I’ve been preaching for the last 28 years. And when I tell you, I now know what the peace of God that passeth all understanding actually means in the last five days. I’m not saying I haven’t known what like…but the last five days I know that verse intimately now. 28 years into this walk, I realized, “Oh, I’m still learning about what it is to walk with Jesus.” Because this peace I have right now, I should be up under a bed somewhere sucking my thumb. (laughter)

Latasha Morrison
Right, right.

Tim Ross
Curled up in the fetal position with a bag of Cheetos or something. But God has given me this incomprehensible peace. And so, I understand what it means to weep in a different way than those that don’t have hope. I understand what it means to grieve in a different way than those that don’t have hope. And it is, it’s a very surreal, almost eerie feeling because it feels like I should be in a puddle of tears. And maybe I will be, but right now it is just very peaceful. Above all else. Above the grief, above the sadness, there is peace.

Latasha Morrison
And those two things can exist at the same time.

Tim Ross
They sure can. They absolutely can.

Latasha Morrison
And I think people don’t sometimes understand those two things. I can have sorrow, but I also can have joy. You know?

Tim Ross
Whoever came up with the word bittersweet deserves a raise. Like whoever, I don’t know, who was sitting up one day going through the dictionary and decided to take the word bitter and sweet and put it together. But it’s the perfect word to describe the season I’m in. Because Saturday was bitter. My dad taking his last breath on Saturday was bitter. And this book tour is sweet.

Latasha Morrison
Yeah, yeah.

Tim Ross
And so I’m carrying the tension of those two realities. And, to your point two things can be true.

Latasha Morrison
How do you see grief as being a part of the basement way of life?

Tim Ross
Oh my goodness. We embrace it because, I’ll give you a more philosophical answer. Okay? Everybody’s been asking me, “How you doing? How you doing? How you doing? How you doing?” And I told them, I said, “I’m actually doing very well.” I said, “I’ve made a deal with my grief.” Here’s the deal I’ve made with my grief. When it shows up, I will acknowledge it. When it shows up, I will give it space, I will not suppress it. I will not reject it. I will not ignore it. I will not try to act like it’s not there. When grief comes, however it wants to come, if it wants to come through tears, I will give it permission to come with the tears that it has right then. If it want to come through laughter if it wants to come through reflective memories. However my grief wants to come I invite it right. I’m not running from it. I’m not scared of it. I think Queen Elizabeth said the price you pay for love is grief. If you give yourself permission to fully love a person and or a thing, then when it when it gets to end of life, you are going to grieve it.

Latasha Morrison
Right.

Tim Ross
With the same way you loved it, should be the same way you grieve it. And the amount of tears that you express actually, are the treasured accolades, tears are the treasured accolades of something that you really love. It’s not something to be choked back. It’s not something to be held back. It’s something to actually give. It’s something to actually release. In the same way, we give a round of applause to something we praise. We should give rounds of tears to something we loved and to someone that we love.

Latasha Morrison
Wow, wow. Whew that was good! (laughter)

Tim Ross
That was good. (laughter)

Latasha Morrison
That’s the funny thing. Like I tell people that I know, you’re the same as I see this as you were telling stories. You know, when I tell stories or tell jokes, it brings me so much joy, because I have those great memories that I carry with me like a legacy. You know? My dad was a jokester. So I’m always saying stuff and doing stuff. If you yawn, my dad would say, “Uh uh uh, save us some air! Good Lord. Can everybody breathe?” (laughter) But those things, like those things bring so much joy. So my prayer for you is that God would bring to memory all those funny things, those wisdom, all those things that your daddy did that will bring you so much joy, that will give you fuel to keep going, and to be all that God has created you to be. So I’m so thankful for you and so grateful for you. So yeah.

Tim Ross
Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

Latasha Morrison
Now, in your book. Back to the book. (laughter)

Tim Ross
Yes, ma’am. Yes, ma’am.

Latasha Morrison
You talk about “Vulnerability is an extravagant gift that you could never demand. You can only create a safe environment to receive it.” That is important, especially in the Be the Bridge, our space, we say that, in this work that we do in racial healing, that we aim to create brave spaces, because what’s safe for you, may not be safe for me. You know? So for vulnerability to happen so that healing can happen, what are ways to cultivate those brave and safe environments? What does that look like practically to kind of create that?

Tim Ross
Yeah, absolutely. So, the prerequisite is what we talked about earlier right? Seen/heard/known/loved even if you disagree with it. And then, there can be no healing, where there is no safety and stability. The environment has to be safe. And the environment has to be stable. That is Healing 101. I need a safe environment, I need a stable environment. I love what you said about what may be safe for me, may not be safe for you. So the brave spaces that you have cultivated in our ethos, we we would lead into those brave spaces with what we call courageous conversations, right? And prefacing them by letting them know that, hey, I need to have a courageous conversation with you. It’s going to take courage for me to say, and it’s going to take courage for you to hear. So we’re actually both being very courageous right now both being very brave, and then allowing myself or that other person to be able to share what they have to say, without having to put a lot of disclaimers in front of it. Again, I like people to be honest, open and transparent, to be hot to lead with that. And to also identify that human beings are very resilient. I think the reason why we haven’t made more strides as it relates to racial, or what I refer to as resolution is because we fragilize people. Instead of stepping into conversations and saying, “Hey, this may hurt you, but you can overcome cancer. Like I’ve seen people come back from Stage Four cancer, I saw a bunch of people survive Hurricane Katrina, and go on to be millionaires, and get new jobs and relocate and love [unclear]. Right? So, I’m like, human beings have survived earthquakes and pestilence and storms, the early settlers that moved across the West and braved the Oregon Trail. I mean, we got, and we think, what you got to say it’s gonna devastate? I mean, we got to get over that. Like, let me say what I got to say, let me hear what you got to say. And however I feel about it, we can we can move on after today.

Latasha Morrison
Right? Let us write it, don’t try to erase it. You know? Yeah, we got to start from a place of truth. And we always say, in our community, you know, that, when we cannot heal what we conceal, you know? And we don’t, we can’t reconcile what’s not recognized. And we know that in any type of relationship that we have with people, if there has been harm caused, we have to start with the harm. You know, like, we need to start with that truth in order to move forward. So we know that conceptually about relationships, but when it comes to this discussion on race, it’s like, we are so weak. And we’re babies we’re soft, you know, and I need for us to be resilient, you know, for us to to really put on the the what you say is the big boy/big girl pants. And really have this conversation and you know, that’s what we do in our community. But I think that’s also what I see you do in The Basement, you know? I see you do that.

Tim Ross
Yeah, that’s correct, we give people, we create a safe space for people to give us the gift of their vulnerability. Right? If they’re safe, they’ll give you their vulnerability if they’re not safe, they’re gonna hold on to it. And when they give it we’re not shocked. We don’t gasp, right? The analogy I always like to give – and I used to give this analogy a lot when I was a lead pastor, is – we gasp about in church, what a doctor would have a poker face for. Right? Like we hear about somebody’s testimony and gasp. We act like we ain’t heard about the Holy Spirit! Like, did you read the whole Bible? Right? I mean, there was rape, and debauchery, and murder, and torture, and slavery in the Bible and you hear somebody’s testimony, and we got to gasp? But imagine if you went to the doctor, right? You’ve been having something go wrong in your body, and you went to the doctor, and you got to put on the little outfit with your back out. And sit up on that cold table with the little thin sheet on it. And then when he come in, you’re like, “Well, Doctor, I’ve been really feeling horrible, and I’ve been having this discharge the last four days.” And if the doctor gasps, you would be like, “I don’t think I’m supposed to be in here! I shouldn’t have came to the general hospital, I need to switch zip codes!” You know what I’m saying? And so, even if you do feel like that, sudden, gasp [reaction], like, “Fix your face!” I mean, we grew up with our parents saying “Fix your face!” Maybe you haven’t heard it. Maybe you can’t identify with that testimony. But don’t let your face show it! Because, I mean, it took bravery for them to even get that much out.

Latasha Morrison
But we don’t like to sit with, because we don’t like silence.

Tim Ross
We’re uncomfortable with silence.

Latasha Morrison
Yeah, we’re uncomfortable with it. And sometimes lament, vulnerability, all of that is like, it requires the stillness.

Tim Ross
That’s right. In order for it to really ferment, and get to the place where it’s really going to do some good and have some medicinal properties to it, I think silence is an acquired sound. In a world full of noise, Latasha, silence is an acquired sound. It is a sound you have to grow accustomed to. You have to be able to sit in it, as uncomfortable as it is. We do it on planes. Every time a baby is crying on a plane, only the rudest of us would show our discomfort with a baby crying on a plane, right? We learned that there’s nothing we can do for a baby whose ears are popping. And for air that’s trapped in its ears or in its lungs, and it hasn’t burped yet or it can’t get to sleep, it’s just too disorienting. The sound of that jet engine being in the air, and only the rudest of us would not tolerate the cries of a baby. But the rest of us have learned, even if this is uncomfortable for us, we can sit in this. For two and a half hours! And so some of us need to act like we’re on a plane ride sometimes. And just resign ourselves to the fact that there’s nothing we can do about this right now. I’m just gonna sit in it with you. I just heard what you had to say, Latasha, [and] it’s horrible. Your dad died of COVID. I’m just gonna sit in this space with you. Tim, your dad died five days ago. Oh, there’s so much I want to say but you know what? I’m just gonna sit with you in the silence. And I’ll wait for your invitation to speak. But I give you the gift of my silence right now and my presence. And I hope that’s enough.

Latasha Morrison
Hello, listeners. Welcome to the Be the Bridge community. This is Latasha Morrison, and I am the founder and CEO of the nonprofit organization, Be the Bridge, and the author of the book entitled “Be the Bridge,” and the host of this wonderful podcast. I am so glad that you are here. You see Be the Bridge responds to racial brokenness and systemic injustice in our world, and believes understanding can move us toward racial healing, racial equity, and racial reconciliation. This podcast is an extension of our vision to make sure people are no longer conditioned by a racialized society. But we are grounded in truth. We have provided this podcast as a resource to help cultivate courageous conversations, and equip all to flourish. You will find interviews from a variety of thought leaders, faith leaders, and business leaders, as well as authors, artists, activists and athletes. You will be encouraged, you will be challenged, but most of all, you will be changed. So go ahead and subscribe to the Be the Bridge podcast on your favorite podcast players. So you don’t miss out on any of these helpful and hopeful conversations.

Latasha Morrison
You know, at the beginning of the year, I lost my sister friend, and I think a day later we were having an event. And I was supposed to do a talk. And I couldn’t do it. Because I couldn’t prepare. It was just so much and I just, I couldn’t. And sometimes you want to push yourself and make yourself and I just didn’t have it in me. And I just told everyone, there like, “Hey, I’m here!” Then I said but you know what? I just want to talk about my friend.

Tim Ross
That’s what I did Monday. I got on Instagram Live. I talked about my daddy for ninety minutes straight. I just talked about my dad. It was so cathartic. I love you being self aware enough to know that, “Nah, I can’t push past this and try to talk about something else.”

Latasha Morrison
Yeah, I love it. I mean, and that’s that vulnerability. And this lady came up to me afterwards, and she said, “I don’t think you could have said anything else that [would have] inspired me or spoke to me [more than] to see a black woman take agency and not have to be strong or to perform and just to say, ‘Nah.'” She She said, “That spoke to me more than anything you could have said.”

Tim Ross
You gave her permission.

Latasha Morrison
And I was like, wow, I didn’t think about that, you know, in doing it. You know, I really felt a little – if I’m honest – a little shame, you know? That I couldn’t press through or I couldn’t be strong enough. Because that’s kind of like, how you’re groomed in society, you know? And to say, “No. Time out,” it was different. And I think about that with you, you know?

Tim Ross
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I refuse to give something I don’t have. As it relates to the emotional equity that I have to give right now, I will not use a credit card. I will only use a debit card. I will only give from what I have. I’m not putting nothing on credit. I will not cheapen my dad like that. I will not. I will not short circuit the life that man lived by giving somebody on credit what I do not actually have in my account.

Latasha Morrison
Right. Right. You mentor so many people. You mentor people in The Basement. You’ve mentored people as a pastor, as a dad. Reimagining what mentorship looks like is important at this time. It could really be important to people, as we talk about racial literacy journeys that we [at Be the Bridge] deal with, we [at Be the Bridge] do a lot of mentorship, and coaching of people. You [also] do that. I have a couple of questions to you as it relates to that. I know that you mentor and coach a lot of people. Who mentors and coaches you?

Tim Ross
Jerome Lewis. Robert Morris. Up until Saturday, Charles Ross. A guy named Chris Voss, Derek Gantt. I have a quorum of people that I value and respect so much. Some of the names are known, most of them are unknown. The majority of them have been in my life for over 20 plus years. And so they’ve seen me grow and evolve and change and progress. They’re the people that I value feedback and perspective and correction and encouragement from the most. Preston Morrison. Corey Miller. Those people are my board of directors for my life, they really are.

Latasha Morrison
I love it. What is a lesson in mentorship that you’ve learned that you can share with our community?

Tim Ross
You will never be a good mentor if you do not give up your time, your money and your proximity. You are not mentoring correctly if it hasn’t cost you in those three areas. To be a really good mentor and a really good disciple maker. And again, my template for disciple-making and for mentorship is Jesus. Jesus is Emmanuel. He’s God With Us. He’s not God, FaceTiming us. He is God WITH US. Right? He gave up divinity for it. He gave up proximity for it. And he gave up eternity for it. Latasha, I have to write that down because I’ve never said that in my life. (laughter)

Latasha Morrison
Write it down. Go ahead and write it down.

Tim Ross
Girl I promise you, I have never said that in my life! And it came out of my mouth like I’m smart. (laughter) I know that’s the Holy Spirit. I have never said that in my life. One moment, please! I have to write that down. (laughter)

Latasha Morrison
I know. And it’s really good when you talk about God With Us like that. There’s a Hebrew word called, I think, “K’ava.” But it talks about to have deep intimacy. So it’s with this intimacy to trust that God is doing and perceiving who God is. That’s like when we talk about mentorship, you know, being with someone, I’m sitting with someone. There’s an intimacy there that it requires.

Tim Ross
That’s absolutely correct. It does. And so I gotta let people live. It is somebody being over at my house – and I’m an introvert, I’d rather be alone. It is me meeting somebody for breakfast and breakfast lasts three and a half hours. It is me flying to their city or them flying to mine so we can get some time together. It’s me paying out of pocket because most of the people you mentor are broke, and young and trying to learn something. You got a 15-20 year head start on these jokers. And so they can’t pay for them eggs. You better be paying for them eggs, you know what I mean? (laughter) So I watched through Scripture, Jesus give up everything to mentor men that had nothing to give him in return. Except the opportunity to live out what he deposited on the inside of them. That was their payback. And their payback was to tell others what he told them. The truest, the best way to pay back a mentor is to actually follow through on the advice that they gave you. To actually live out what they gave up their time, their resources, their energy to put into you. That’s why I’m honored to go on this tour, in the midst of my grief, because my daddy put something on the inside of me that I’m grateful to share with the masses. You know, I had to do a book signing at an airport terminal yesterday. It started at nine, and I was there at 830 because I am my father’s son. My 23 & Me got 20% White in me. That 20% White in me shows up on time! (laughter) I show up early, ain’t no [unintelligible] If there’s Charles Ross involved.

Latasha Morrison
I love it, I love it. And you did that today, too.

Tim Ross
That’s right!

Latasha Morrison
Yeah. I love it. I love it. I love it. Man, I’m so grateful for you, you know, when we talk about this community of racial healing, you know, it’s a different community. You know, we do some hard work. And I mean, right now, we’re in the thick of it, like a lot of people are feeling hopeless, discouraged, you know, in this, they feel like, “Does it really matter?” What would you say to our community that’s listening now that are feeling hopeless? That feel like [there’s] all this knowledge, that people don’t want to hear truth? People are not interested. They’re not interested in, in hearing about the sufferings of others, they’re not caring for the other. What would you say to encourage this community?

Tim Ross
This work is so worth it. Because on the other side of it, it allows you to hone your empathy skills. The reason why I lean into this work…I could just…both you and I, clearly, could just have a whole circle of black friends, right? Just be completely pro black, everything all black. But I have the richest friendships with white people and Hispanic people and Australian people and English people and Singaporean people because I lean into the misunderstandings, and I lean into the vulnerability of being ignorant and having and acknowledging I need to learn something I don’t know. I don’t know about you, about your culture. I’m learning Spanish right now. And so I can’t tell you how much I’m being corrected in the way I use an accent, or in the way that I express a certain word. And if I don’t get comfortable with being dumb, if I lack the humility to be ignorant and not know, then I’ll never learn anything new. Like, my white friends are so enriched because of my relationship with them, and vice versa. Those are the white people, we want every white person to be. And I’m the black person they want every black person to be, and we could have never had that without each other! And so I believe that we are called to do hard things in the midst of hopelessness. It would be absolutely disrespectful to Medgar Evers, it would be absolutely disrespectful to Rosa Parks, it would be absolutely disrespectful to MLK, to Malcolm X (who might have been on opposite sides of the execution of how they should have looked) but they had the same goal in mind. It would be disrespectful to Charles and Maxine Ross – child, we ain’t got to go back far. You know, one generation. They’ve been trying to use them black and white photos to make it seem like it was in the 1800s. Child, please! My mama is a walking [unintelligible]. She was in the Alabama boycott! She was one of the people that didn’t get on the buses. [more words, difficult to hear] This history ain’t long ago, and we should get over it. My mama can’t get over it! She drank from a colored water faucet, y’all gotta stop [unclear]. So to sit in that discomfort and to learn and to be ignorant, and to grow, and to take that knowledge and to use it in the spaces where we have power? The way I explain white privilege to people is by explaining my flight privilege. They have white privilege. I have flight privilege. I have over a million miles with American Airlines. I do not know what it is to sit in 31 A, B, C. I don’t know what it is to sit on a plane next to the bathroom. I do not know what that is! (laughter) Listen, I’m in rows one through four, okay? And I have a meal. I have a hot towel. I have a privilege that people starting from the eighth row back don’t have. I’m not giving up that privilege. I’m not asking white people to give up their white privilege, either. What I’m saying is use that privilege. I can use my executive platinum status to help somebody in Coach have the same experience I have in First Class. I may not be able to rack up as many miles, I may not be able to close the gap with the mileage in between me and them. But I can put them in those spaces and give them the experiences and let them know how to get that experience themselves. That’s how you use your privilege.

Latasha Morrison
Yeah, yeah. I love analogies like that, because people can grasp those. You know, we know that we tell people hey, when you come to this work, it’s going to be uncomfortable. You know? So we have to embrace the discomfort in that. And even to words like right now, you know, DEI is a bad word. Every year is something. It was white fragility, white privilege, white race, racism (laughter). Everything becomes a no no. You know, there’s only a couple of words that I’m married to that I’m like, “Hey, as Be the Bridge, as bridge builders, we’re gonna continue to say these words.” But then there’s some [words] like, “Hey, I could change it up, you know?” I can cause them to make that point, you know? And I love this thing, just understanding that, I realized that we’re not going to reach everyone, you know?

Tim Ross
We’re really not. Guess what? You’re not gonna reach everyone with any visions of grandeur as relates to racial reconciliation/resolution, just like a preacher ain’t gonna reach everybody with gospel. Everybody ain’t gonna be interviewed. That’s just the bottom line. That’s the choice that we make and take as brave people with the bold message. Jesus died on the cross off of a maybe. It’s one of my favorite chapters in Welcome to the Basement. It’s called “Off of a Maybe.” He went to that cross off of a maybe. He shed his blood with no guarantee that we would appreciate what he did. And yet he did it anyway. “While we were YET sinners, Christ died for the ungodly.” And so in the same way, the work that you do, you got to do it in the face of somebody that’s like, “I don’t care what you say to me. I don’t care what tools you bring to this corporation. I don’t care how much enlightenment you try to bring to this organization. We don’t want it.” We give it anyway. We do the work anyway. In the same way a chef, when he gets up in the morning, and opens up his restaurant, he don’t have a choice whether he wants to make the biscuits or not. Whether 10 people come in that restaurant in that day, or ten hundred people come in that restaurant in that day, he has to flip them biscuits. And so I always tell people when it comes to the church, or when it comes to my business, or our organization, and the movements that we want to have around vulnerability, we are open for business. And if 10 people come in, we gonna feed ’em. If 10,000 people come in, we gonna feed ’em. But we flipping biscuits today. (laughter) Oh, somebody’s gonna get this one.

Latasha Morrison
Listen, I like to say at the end of the story, because you know what? The people who don’t listen, the people who don’t get it, their story will be – it won’t be that no one ever told them. Their story will be that a.) I didn’t listen. And that’s a whole different thing.

Tim Ross
Listen, listen. That’s what judgment day is gonna be about. It ain’t like you didn’t hear it!

Latasha Morrison
Yeah, yeah. As we close, Tim, what is bringing you hope right about now? What is bringing you some hope?

Tim Ross
Mmmm. You know what, I was at Barnes & Nobles in Philadelphia last night. There was a line wrapped around the second floor for me to sign their book, and what’s giving me hope are a bunch of people from around this country who are saying yes to being vulnerable. Yes to doing internal deep work emotionally. Yes to not being the victim anymore. It’s given me a lot of hope. The host at the Barnes & Nobles said, “Out of all of the authors that we’ve hosted for book signings, we’ve never had to get a box of Kleenex for the people that were waiting to get their books signed.” She said, “I’ve never seen so many tears shed, and it’s moved our entire staff. And we are so intrigued now with your work. I’ve never seen people moved like this.” But what’s bringing me hope is that in city after city that we go through, people are actually doing that work. And we have to make an adjustment on what we consider a win. The first messianic prophecy given with promise is Genesis 3:15, “The seed of the woman shall bruise the head of the serpent and he shall bruise his heel.” It is 4000 years before Jesus is born. It’s another 30 before he starts his earthly ministry, and he ends…he ended his life with 11 devoted followers. Not 11 million, right? Not as we would say in the hood or the country, not 1100.

Tim Ross
(Laughing) Right. Right.

Tim Ross
He ended his life with 11 guys devoted to him. Not including the women, who were way more down than even the men. I just think we need to recalibrate what a win is. Because, what if, after all of this work, it’s only a few hundred people that really resonated with the Basement message? Will I be okay with that? If Jesus could be okay with his 11 I better be okay. Whatever that final tally is. Because if I think it’s in the mass, we’ve seen the most successful things didn’t come because it was mass. It came because it was significant. And it actually changed people from the inside out. And so that’s what keeps, that’s what gives me hope. I’m wired in such a way, thanks to Charles Ever Ross, it has never taken me much to be content. It never took my daddy too much to be content. And in the same way, I keep the hope because I don’t need tens of thousands of people to resonate with what God has put in my heart for me to truly believe that this is the right direction to go.

Latasha Morrison
Yeah. Wow. So good, that’s so good bro. How are you getting rest? How you gonna rest?

Tim Ross
Sleeping! (laughter) Girl, I woke up from a nap to do this podcast with you! (laughter) When I tell you I was sleeping hard, I had to set my alarm clock, to make sure I didn’t…(laughter) there was drool and everything! Middle of the day I was KNOCKED OUT.

Latasha Morrison
(Laughter) Well, good! I’m so glad, I’m so glad that you’re getting some rest. In the midst of everything, and this was a book tour, you know, preparing the eulogy, all of the things you know? So that’s important. Thank you so much! For coming on the Be the Bridge podcast. I love it. I love it. Love you too, bro. And oh, listen, you said, I think it was in one of your podcasts you were talking about women in leadership and women. teachers and pastors and stuff. And you mentioned you were saying some names and you rattled off my name and so some of my friends who listen to you said, “He said your name!” (laughter)

Latasha Morrison
I did! (laughter)

Latasha Morrison
(Laughter) And I was like, “I heard him say my name!”

Tim Ross
Yes, ma’am. Absolutely.

Latasha Morrison
It’s so funny, man. I can’t wait to see you. Just praying for you. I have my book here. Like, you know how people back in the day used to hold the book up? I gotta hold it…(laughter)

Tim Ross
(Laughter and clapping) Audible!

Latasha Morrison
Get the Audible version! (laughing) version. (laughing)

Tim Ross
That’s exactly right. And I read it myself, for anybody that is an audiophile. I read it myself, yes ma’am.

Latasha Morrison
He’s reading it himself. That makes a difference too, that makes a difference.

Tim Ross
It does! I couldn’t have nobody else read that book.

Latasha Morrison
It’s hard to do. It’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of work. But it’s worth it. Because people like to hear the author’s voice. You know? And how you communicate with your work. So we are grateful for you. I’m grateful that you have created – I want to say the first thing that came to mind – it’s like a third space for people, you know? It’s something different. It’s unconventional, it’s unorthodox. But it is helping people. You know? There’s fruit…it’s different. And this is the thing where I try to…you know, we have all these different Christian camps, you know? And all these different views. And you know, I think sometimes people, like, I wish sometimes people, we could just pause…and see what God is doing. It may be different from the way you would do it…it may not be the way you would do it or how God has called you to do it. But different doesn’t mean wrong.

Tim Ross
It doesn’t! I’m so glad you said this, because – and I know we’re trying to wind down – but I think about the fact that there is a president who presides over the United States of America. But really, it is the governors of individual states that are in tuned with what that state needs. And so the governor presides over the entire state. But then you have mayors that have oversight over cities and they know what the people in those cities need. And so I’m just dumbfounded that one pastor or one denomination thinks that they know what the whole body of Christ needs! And that they’re actually trying to walk around like they’re the President of Christianity! It is wild and egregious!

Latasha Morrison
Yeah, yeah. We all need to come to the table. We will sit down because I mean, it’s a cliche, but it’s like we are better together. And there’s a way, if we can find out especially…especially, I would say, I want to say black people in this – I’m not gonna say bipoc – I’m gonna say black people – if we can find a way to work together and to build community together there’s something to learn from what we’ve seen historically our people do…That is our strength. Our oneness is our strength and that is some of my prayer what I’m seeing is, like, stopping these silos. So that’s why I’m so grateful we are all doing different things but I’m glad to be in communities with people that are doing different things (and some groups I’m in they’re doing the same thing) but building this this collective oneness. We may not move the same, but we can be here for one another and help each other win and challenge each other and pray for each other. And there’s something to that and that is my prayer for us and the communities that we’re building right now. They may be different, but God is at work.

Tim Ross
He is! And I love the work He’s doing. Because it takes all types to reach all types and so I’m for it. I am for it.

Latasha Morrison
Oh man, thank you so much! Thank you so much for coming on here.

Tim Ross
It’s been my pleasure. Thank you.

Latasha Morrison
Go get you some more good sleep! (laughter) Eat you a good meal and continue to drink your water – I saw you with the big jug up there! (Laughter)

Tim Ross
I need a gallon a day to be okay.

Latasha Morrison
Go get that water. You make my little cup look so small! (Laughter)

Tim Ross
Because it is!

Latasha Morrison
But I got this big other… see I was, I was rocking with these Stanleys like, see? Nobody don’t know about this kind of Stanley.

Tim Ross
(Laughter) That looks like you need to go down a coal mine with a canary!

Latasha Morrison
This is before Stanley was popular! (Laughter)(Laughter)

Tim Ross
Yeah, you workin’ with some West Virginians! You in the coal mines.(Laughter)

Latasha Morrison
With that canary! (laughter)

Tim Ross
You were OG Stanley girl! (laughter) That’s a teapot! That’s a WHOLE kettle.

Latasha Morrison
Oh my goodness. You know you’re a mess. I love you, bruh, and you take care. I’ll be checking in on you.

Tim Ross
I love you too. Thank you so much.

Narrator
Thanks for listening to the Be the Bridge podcast. To find out more about the Be the Bridge organization and/or to become a bridge builder in your community, go to bethebridge.com. Again, that’s bethebridge.com. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, remember to rate and review it on this platform and share it with as many people as you possibly can. You can also connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Today’s show was edited, recorded and produced by Trayvon Potts at Integrated Entertainment Studios in metro Atlanta, Georgia. The host and executive producer is Latasha Morrison. Lauren C. Brown is the Senior Producer and transcribed by Sarah Connatser. Please join us next time. This has been a Be the Bridge production.