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Recently, Historian, Author, and Speaker, Dr. Jemar Tisby joined the Be the Bridge Youth & University Program for a virtual event entitled “From Chains to Change: Faith, Freedom, and the Black Vote.” Dr. Tisby spoke to our community about the historical context of Black Christian political engagement, the importance of the Black vote, and why it is important for students to be informed and involved.
This conversation needed to be an episode of the Be the Bridge Podcast because of the historical perspective, the current realities, and the hopeful reminder that God is at work. This is needed for teens, students, and young adults, but also for adults to better navigate this election season and the ones to come!
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Executive Producer – Latasha Morrison
Episode Host – Jefferson Jones
Producer – Sarah Connatser
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Not all views expressed in this interview reflect the values and beliefs of Latasha Morrison or the Be the Bridge organization.
*this was transcribed by Spotify and has not been checked for errors
0:00
Welcome to the Be the Bridge podcast.
Be the Bridge exists to empower people and culture toward racial healing, equity, and reconciliation.
Latasha Morrison founded Be the Bridge in 2016 to foster needed dialogue and brave spaces and to give people the tools to pursue racial justice.
0:22
We provide resources and community to do just that, and this podcast is one of those resources.
You’ll hear interviews hosted by Latasha and our team, conversations about current events, and encouragement for your racial literacy journey.
Thank you for listening, subscribing and engaging in this important work.
0:44
Thank you for joining us for Chains to Change conversation with Jamar Tisby on the history of Black Christian engagement and political engagement and giving us an opportunity to understand why voting is so important, why understanding the history of voting, especially in a Christian context, within even more in a context of the African American population here in the United States of America.
1:18
I’m just so glad that we have Doctor Jamar Tisby here.
I feel like I need to do the the intro that Pastor Tyler does, but we no.
You don’t.
No, you don’t.
I never lived that down.
Yeah, we we got to come up for one with him.
1:33
I know, right?
Yeah.
You got to have to do that, man.
You, you got a lot going on.
Listen.
We are trying to save democracy and I’m not going to sugar coat it at all.
This is a pivotal moment, so we got to leave it all on the field.
Yeah, we, you know, we have to.
1:49
We, we really have to.
If we’re thinking about democracy, we’re thinking about that.
Just initially made me think about hearing the voice of the other, valuing the voice of those who have been othered, as Doctor Martin Luther King would say, people who have been signified.
2:07
You can signify a person if you can then strip it, strip those individuals of their rights.
And that’s what has happened.
So be the bridge.
You know, we exist to empower people and culture toward racial healing, equity and reconciliation.
2:23
We do that as we are honoring the heart of God, the character of God, as He desires to see us be healed and become one.
We know that Latasha Morrison is the founder CEO and she has written a couple of books, the first being Be the Bridge and then the second being Brown Faces White Spaces.
2:43
And in the second book, she has taken a plunge into different sectors, nine different sectors of society and how systemic racism has impacted those 9 sectors.
And I believe this conversation that we’re having today, Doctor Jamar, is one that is relevant for the old, the young, the in between.
3:08
And I’m excited to have you here to have this important conversation on chains to change as we navigate why we need to have this conversation, why we need to get into this and why we need to help the younger generations understand why voting is so important, why understanding history is so important.
3:33
We know it’d be the bridge.
We’re all about truth telling.
We’re all about the the truth telling of history.
We’re all about vulnerability, humility, and how those things, self-awareness, play into having a ethical approach, an approach that is wrapped with integrity and where integrity is at the core in order for us to move forward.
4:00
We know Jesus is a way, the truth and the life.
And we know that the Spirit, the Holy Spirit knows all truth, knows the deep things of God, knows all truth.
And so we’re here and I’m so honored to have you here as I think about the Spirit of justice.
4:16
And when you hear that title, your book, how does that make you think about voting?
And you know, Black Christians in the history of voting.
Raphael Warnock, who is the senator and also pastor of Ebenezer Baptist Church, where Martin Luther King was also pastor, right here in Atlanta, says that a vote is a type of prayer.
4:41
And it is a sense of when you cast your vote, you’re casting your vote for what you hope the future will be and look like.
So I love that idea.
You know, it’s, it’s, it’s a kind of prayer, it’s a kind of request.
4:57
It’s a kind of hope for a, for progress and for tomorrow to be better than today.
And that’s, you know, I think that’s a pretty good description of it.
I want to let folks know tuning in that I have a heart and passion for youth.
5:16
My first career was as a middle school teacher I taught 6th grade science and social studies and middle school teacher I did middle school too.
We.
Talked about that life science.
What?
Oh.
That’s what’s up.
That’s what’s up.
So I did that.
5:33
And then I was also a middle school principal, grades five through 8 for some time.
So I, you know, right out of college, my, my first, you know, basically 10 years was working with young people in an educational setting.
5:49
So it’s really important to me and I’m still doing that, but now in at the college level.
So I’m a professor of history at Simmons College of Kentucky, which, you know, kind of figures into all this conversation.
It’s a historically black college, HBCU in Louisville, KY, founded by Black Baptist ministers all the way back in the 1860s is when they started praying about.
6:14
It took them more than 10 years to actually get it going, but it’s a faith-based historically black institution.
And so I continue to work with undergraduate students, college students, I teach history there, African American history.
6:32
And I’m really burdened by the fact that even my students, all of whom so far have been black.
Seem.
Not to be very engaged, politically speaking.
And if you’re on this call, that’s probably not you.
6:50
Maybe somebody forced you into it.
I don’t know, but there’s some interest here and, and unfortunately, you might be in the minority of, of folks in your age group.
There’s just, you know, I, I, I, I remember being a teenager, young adult, I don’t know that I was all that plugged in.
7:09
But also, I do remember being eager to vote, being eager to turn 18 and being able to cast a vote and then becoming more and more interested in politics when I had the responsibility.
7:24
And it really is a responsibility to vote.
So I just think this conversation is vitally important.
I’m so thankful to all who have tuned in.
And yeah, let’s get into it.
Let’s talk about the history, the responsibility, the hope, the the, the trials, the tribulations, all of that.
7:40
Yeah, let’s go, Let’s go, man.
Middle school teacher, man, we got a.
We got a.
Yes, yeah, Very few black men in middle school teaching, you know.
Yeah, a lot to talk about there.
And so the first that I want to hear this, this could take the whole time, but we’re going to try to maintain.
8:01
Control.
I’m going to keep it brief.
So how do we get to the place of being so dogmatic and married to political parties and agendas?
Yeah, I think this is a question.
You might hear the word polarization and, and, and you think about the root word holes or polar and you think about the North Pole and the South Pole.
8:24
Those are the extremes, right Pole just means extreme ends of the spectrum.
And when you talk about political polarization, the idea is that we all run to the left or to the right, depending on your political leanings.
And there’s this huge gap in between.
8:42
And that’s a problem because very few people want to meet in the middle, discuss, reason, compromise together, come to conclusions.
But there’s a little bit more to it #1 it is not simply polarization, it is asymmetrical polarization.
9:04
Asymmetrical polarization, Go back to geometry class, right?
An equilateral triangle has three sides that are all equal, length 3 angles that are all equal, and asymmetrical triangle is going to have sides that one side might be longer than the other, one angle might be sharper or wider than the other.
9:26
So it’s not all equal and obtuse angle.
All geometry stuff, yes.
Yes.
So asymmetrical polarization means not equal.
In the current political context.
9:41
When we talk about asymmetrical polarization, people on the right are moving further to the right faster than people on the left are moving to the left.
Let that sink in.
9:57
People on the right are moving further to the right faster or further towards the pole faster than people on the left are moving toward their pole.
What that means is the, the, the current, we have a two party system.
10:13
That’s part of why there’s so much is sort of tribalism, right?
There’s only two choices.
So you got to pick one or the other really.
And right now one of the parties is is has been taken over by a small faction that is extreme, absolutely extreme.
10:32
And so we are polarized, but it’s not because both sides are doing the same thing in an opposite direction.
One side is moving much faster then back to the two choices.
Why are we so, you know, dogmatically, you know, emphasize this party and nothing else.
10:51
Well, number one, we don’t have an odd choices.
If you look at places like England, they have a, a system where they have dozens of parties and you actually, it’s called a coalition government.
You know, one party typically can, can win a majority.
11:08
You have to form alliances with people who have generally the same values and same policy.
But there’s going to be some differences, which can be healthy because then you, you have to communicate and compromise with people who disagree.
11:24
In the US we only have a two party system, so you got to pick one or the other and you can say, oh, I’m independent, I’m third party.
Well, the reality is in our electoral system, no third party candidate has had any sort of chance of winning in the past half century and more so if you want a winning candidate, it’s going to be a Democrat or a Republican.
11:48
The last thing I’ll say about this is when it comes to black people and voting, we have always been concerned about our civil rights and human rights.
With those priorities in A2 party system, there’s always a party of progress and a party of regress.
12:08
A party of progress and a party of regress, meaning when it comes to black civil rights and human rights, there’s been a party that at least gave lip service to progress.
We want to move forward, we want to grant more rights.
We want full inclusion and equality.
12:24
Whether they actually delivered or whatever, that’s a different story, but at least they made a a hint at progress.
And then there’s been a party of regress, that party saying we don’t need to go forward and make progress.
12:40
As a matter of fact, we need to go back to a time when things were better right?
And so I’ll give you one example.
In 1868, the first presidential election after the Civil War, Ulysses S Grant was running, and he was a former Union general, so he was on the side of the North.
13:04
And then there was the other opposing presidential candidate and vice president was the Seymour Blair ticket.
Seymour was the presidential candidate.
Blair was the vice presidential candidate.
You know what their slogan was?
Talk about party of progress and party of regress.
13:21
The Seymour Blair motto for their presidential run was this.
This is a white man’s country.
Let white men rule.
So if you’re black and voting, what is your choice?
13:44
And that’s continued on to, you know, even the present day in in many points of view.
So that’s one of the reasons we we just don’t have a lot of choices.
And then people understand the impact of voting.
13:59
It’s not just are you red or blue, it’s quality of life and how would your day-to-day life be affected?
Yeah.
And so it made me think, though, about some of the the language from senators that date back to the, you know, to the foundation of the nation back in the 1700s.
14:16
And we can go on that certain senators would say things like, you know, society, this nation wasn’t made for black people.
This is for this is a country for white people.
And they, they, they were not apologetic.
14:34
They said it unapologetically with their, with their whole chest, right.
And so it made me think about a president in 1867 marked that date, 1867, who said this?
He said Negroes have have shown less capacity for government than any other race of people.
14:55
No independent government of any form has ever been successful in their hands.
On the contrary, wherever they have been left to their own devices, they have shown a constant tendency to relapse into barbarism.
15:11
So I think Doctor Jamar, as we’re having this conversation, I think it’s it’s so good for for teenagers, middle school, high school, for students in those ages to hear these things.
Not that they have to, not to form their theology, not to form their life, but to inform them about the past and how that has impacted people, groups, us specifically over time, and how some of that same rhetoric is being repeated with different words.
15:49
You have a quote that you say you know racism doesn’t go.
Never goes away, just adapts.
It just adapts.
I would like to call racism the ultimate transformer, right?
And so I wanted to share that just a little bit.
16:06
And so let’s talk about this very simple question just to tone it down a little bit, You know, cuz we’re here, we’re talking to some teens and we’re talking to college students and young people specifically.
How can teens who can’t vote make an impact?
16:24
You know, Cuz I know that there’s somewhere like, well, I don’t need to hear this.
I don’t need this information.
I don’t need to know these things.
What?
What’s in it for me?
Why I’m a teenager?
Say I’m 15, I’m 14.
Why do I need to hear this?
Why should I get engaged?
And what can I do even though I can’t vote now?
16:42
That’s a great question.
Just to go back a little bit, that quote that you read to us, that’s from Andrew Johnson.
And what’s so interesting is that Andrew Johnson was Abraham Lincoln’s Vice president.
Now, we could say a lot about Lincoln and his views on black people and slavery, but what the Andrew Johnson was from Tennessee.
17:04
He was a southerner, white man and a racist and a white supremacist.
The reason why Lincoln chose him as vice president was because Lincoln’s priority was the the union of the North and the South.
17:20
He wanted to bring the United States back together rather than have the Union and the Confederates, right?
So he chose someone from the South who could appeal to white Confederates.
And then no sooner does the Civil War come to a close than Abraham Lincoln is assassinated.
17:43
Now, who’s the president?
His vice president, Andrew Johnson, the racist white supremacist.
So that’s who’s in the, in the, in, in the, in the White House right after the Civil War.
That’s the opposition that black people had to deal with politically.
18:05
We’ll probably talk in in in a moment about the Civil Rights Act of 1866.
We maybe know about the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which actually took the murders of Medgar Evers in 63 President Kennedy in N63 right was very hard to pass Civil Rights Act of 1964.
18:28
But we actually had a Civil Rights Act back in 1866 and Congress passed it.
Andrew Johnson vetoed it as president.
It can go through Congress and then it gets to the president’s desk and he can say no.
Then it won’t goes back to Congress where they override his veto.
18:48
So Andrew Johnson was responsible for trying to kill the Civil Rights Act of 1866.
He’s also responsible for basically restoring wealthy white plantation owners to full citizenship without any consequences.
19:07
So if you are a Confederate general commander, whatever, you face very little consequences because Andrew Johnson was sympathetic to racist Southerners.
So anyway, all of that is background to his comment about black people can’t handle political rights.
19:26
Now let’s talk about a teenager today and voting.
Yeah, let’s think about let’s, let’s, let’s say if you want to go to college, right, the wrong time to prepare for college is your is the last quarter of senior year.
19:46
Right.
Right, like you, you going to be way behind.
You’re going to be looking around, all your friends will be getting their acceptance letters and you know, packing up and everything and you’re just getting started.
It’s a little bit like that with voting, too.
20:05
At 18 you gain the right to vote, but if you only start to pay attention at 18, you’re going to be very behind.
That’s good, Sir.
So you’ve got to know the mechanics of it.
How do you register to vote?
Not only how do you register, but these days, how do you check your registration?
20:24
Go to vote.org and you can put in your name, your address and your birthday and it will check whether you are registered in your state because sometimes even if you did register, it doesn’t show up that you have registered.
So you got to check, you got to know where your polling site is.
OK, here’s what I did before I could even vote.
20:41
I was 1516 and my best friend, his dad was involved in local government, wasn’t elected, but just very active in it.
And so we we volunteered as poll workers on Election Day as high school teenagers.
21:00
And it was fascinating.
I mean, we were there all night long.
We helped count votes, we helped pack boxes.
We helped count the boxes.
There’s a whole process, but we did that a couple years in a row because number one, we learned a ton and #2 we felt like we were contributing to the community and there were all these little old ladies that just love to see us teenagers there being civically involved had great snacks.
21:28
It was it was very memorable.
So you can still get involved even before you can vote.
Yeah.
So now that that’s, that’s awesome because I have a totally, I have a, a different perspective.
I have a different story on the other side of the spectrum.
The only time that I remember being engaged with voting, the only core memory I have was from 3rd grade when we used to get those little news weekly things and you could vote in class.
22:01
That’s the only exposure that was intentional in my life growing up.
My parents didn’t talk about voting, they didn’t talk about politics.
My grandparents didn’t talk about politics.
No one.
There wasn’t this urgency or this desire to equipment to inform us about politics and why voting is important.
22:23
I didn’t learn until I was an undergrad.
So and, and now I come from I’m second generation college student.
My mom went, graduated from Virginia State.
She tried to get me to go there, but that didn’t work out.
22:39
So I ain’t, I don’t want to go there.
My dad also went to Virginia State, but he didn’t finish.
He went to, he went to the war.
He’s connected, tied to Vietnam.
So now we have this situation where we have so many teens, young adults, I say even college students who don’t know anything about politics, nothing about voting, nothing about government, don’t even know that the Electoral College is racist at at its core.
23:08
So yeah, I just wanted to share that.
Yeah.
So I, I, I think that is probably more common than not.
You know, it would, it would be less frequent that someone had an experience like mine where you get involved, you know, and volunteer.
And, and part of that is is because Black people, we face so many day-to-day obstacles.
23:33
You know, a lot of people trying to get jobs, trying to make ends meet.
When you are stuck in survival mode, you don’t have a lot of room in your life for political engagement and political involvement.
That seems like a luxury that seems like bonus time that you don’t have.
23:51
When I was a teacher, I was in the Mississippi Delta region, which is one of the poorest regions in the entire country.
I was on the Arkansas side.
And So what that meant was I had parents and families where, you know, it’s single parent, multiple children, not not college educated, may be unemployed and and getting social support right from the government.
24:17
They did not have a lot of room in their life to sit down and read the news and research candidates and everything like that.
So understand that that part of the difficulty of being politically involved for Black people in particular is the fact that many of us are still just trying to make it, still just trying to survive.
24:39
That’s a lot of my students and their families even to this day in college, right?
So that’s one factor there.
But it’s also critical because we can’t say, I mean, as we look at our history, there have been plenty of struggling Black people who were very active politically because they were struggling Black people and they didn’t want to struggle so hard.
25:08
And they knew that voting and getting the right people to make better laws was critical to it.
I’ll give you one example, one of my favorite historical heroes.
If you haven’t heard of her, look her up.
Fannie Lou Hammer.
Yo pause.
How do you know that was in my head?
25:24
You was.
That was in your head, yes.
In line.
So we we on the same page.
I was like, I was saying, like Sandy Lou Hammer, Fannie Lou Hammer.
Teacher vibe Yes and.
Then come on, Sir, Come on, tell us about her.
She was born in the Mississippi Delta in 1917.
25:41
She was the 20th of 20 children.
Now I don’t care how many brothers and sisters you got.
How many?
The 20th of 20 children.
So when you talk about poor, I mean, there wasn’t poor.
It was Pope she, she wrote, she she spoke about them sometimes only having like lard, like fat and gravy that they would mix up into sort of a or flour wrap some some fat and some flour that they would mix up into a kind of gravy.
26:13
Talk about.
Sometimes that’s all they had to eat, you know, or some, some greens without any seasoning.
You know, it wasn’t ham Hock or anything in there.
It was just plain old Greens, right?
Ham Hock, so you’re making me hungry.
Yes, but you know, that’s how poor she was.
26:31
And yet in 1962, she was a faithful church going woman.
She went to it, went to a meeting at her church, William Chapel AME in Ruralville, Mississippi, and heard a presentation about voting rights.
And when they asked for volunteers to go register to vote was before you can even vote, just register to vote, she said.
26:50
I raised my hand as high as it could go.
And the very night after she came back from trying to register to vote where they were turned away by white men with guns, she not only got fired from her job as a sharecropper on a plantation, she got kicked off the plantation.
27:08
So imagine going to register to vote.
You get violently turned away at gunpoint, you come back and because of the fear of the white community, this, this plantation holder, Marlowe was, was his last name.
27:26
He didn’t want the white power structure to come down on him saying, get get control of your Negroes.
They’re going and trying to vote.
So he goes to Fannie Lou Hammer and says, listen, unless you stop this stuff, you’re, you’re, you’re done.
And Fannie Lou Hammer said, I’m not going to stop.
27:41
I didn’t go down there to register for you.
I went down there to register for me.
And Marlowe, out of fear and complicity, says, alright, you can’t work here anymore and you’re off the plantation.
So imagine going to register, not even voting.
Register to vote and you lose not only your job but your home.
27:59
That part.
And Fannie Lou Hammer was a sharecropper.
She didn’t.
She had less money than you, I promise.
She was part of the poorest part of the poorest state in the country.
And yet she becomes well known as the civil rights activist, even gives her testimony at the 1964 Democratic National Convention.
28:16
I could go on and on, but my point is this.
Being poor, struggling, having a hard life is partly a result of bad politics, and so people who are in that position recognize the role of voting and getting better politics to make life better for them.
28:37
Man, you made me think that you know the quote.
The system isn’t wasn’t isn’t broken.
It was built this way.
That’s right.
And, you know, it made me think about all of these different things that have happened, poll taxes, literary literacy tests, come on grandfather clauses, voter intimidation, gerrymandering, felon disenfranchisement, limited registration opportunities.
29:04
And the worst for me personally is I think about, you know, my understanding of it is the violence and the lynchings.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, so #1 I’ve heard that quote of, you know, if it wasn’t so important, they wouldn’t work so hard to try to stop you from doing it.
29:28
Say that one more time, Sir.
If it wasn’t so important, they wouldn’t work so hard to try to stop you from doing it.
Meaning voting so #1 Black people did not gain the right to vote until after the Civil War.
29:45
And then it was only black men.
And it wasn’t until the 1920s when we got the 19th Amendment did women gain the right to vote.
Right.
And then even still, because of all those things you just named grand grandfather clause was really interesting.
30:02
It said your status is determined by the status of your grandfather.
So this is right after the Civil War.
So basically what they’re saying is if without using the language of race, this is where racism adapts, right?
30:18
So you don’t have to say black or white.
Come on, you say where?
Where was your grandfather in 1845?
It was coded.
Were they free or were they enslaved?
That’s the grandfather clause, right?
Literacy tests.
This is what they did to Fannie Lou Hammer.
30:33
So when she did finally get a chance to register to vote, they asked her to interpret a section of the Mississippi State constitution.
And even number one, she only had a 6th grade education formally because she had to quit school to pick cotton full time.
30:54
Can you imagine being what, 6th grade to what, 12?
You know, 11-12 and you’re picking cotton all day every day in the Mississippi sun.
That’s what she was doing in 6th grade.
So.
Kids better want a sweet now that.
You know, I mean, however bad we have it, you take out the trash, right?
31:15
Whatever it is, do put put the dishes in the dishwasher.
It wasn’t picking cotton.
But she had to quit school to do that full time.
And so anyway, she gets asked, you know, this question, which number one, she doesn’t have much of A formal education to have a background to answer it.
31:31
But #2 didn’t matter because the poll workers were always white and it was completely up to them, totally subjective whether you’ve passed or failed.
And guess what?
All the black people happened to fail because they didn’t want black people to vote.
31:48
Wait, wait, what?
Percent failed.
You know, all of them all.
Of them, that was a percent all.
Of them, you know, Here’s the thing, Mr. Jones, going back to your teaching days?
32:05
I asked my students and I was, I’m, I’m curious what you all think.
Would you agree with my students?
And it wasn’t all of them, but it was about half the class.
They basically said, I mean, we’re in an African American history class.
I’m talking about this all semester.
32:21
And I asked them just maybe a month ago, does the fact that black people didn’t have the right to vote and had to have an entire civil rights movement just to start to get the right to vote, does that make any difference to you in terms of your participation?
32:41
And a lot of them said no all.
Right, let’s see.
That it didn’t.
It didn’t matter to them all.
Right to my people here in the room knowing that we we couldn’t vote, we haven’t always had the right or the opportunity to vote.
32:58
Well, now we’re in a position where we do and we can and we have that right.
Just allow real loud yes or no.
Does that make a difference for you today?
Already on three 123 they say yes, So yes, great. 9 here with me right now and they say it does make a difference.
33:21
So I guess when you see them, it’s going to that’ll be a good conversation.
Or they they they may just want to give you the answer that they want you to.
That’s it that they think you want to hear, right?
But no, I believe you.
And like I said, if you’re here then you’d likely care more than the average person.
33:41
But I’ll throw this out there.
There’s been a couple articles in the news lately that show the demographic that is either most unengaged or is voting against the majority of black people is young black men, young black men, older black people, and older black men, you know, still voting consistently with the majority.
34:13
It’s younger black men that are saying either A, it doesn’t matter, I’m not getting involved at all, doesn’t affect my life one way or the other, or B, I’m gonna try this other candidate just to, just to try something different.
34:29
Or even more frightening to me is these young black men see the sexism and the misogyny and the patriarchy as like strength and it appeals to their sense of masculinity, which I would call toxic masculinity.
34:49
And they want this, this strong man in office.
Careful, Sir.
Be careful with that masculinity.
You know folks going.
Listen, we got to talk about it.
We, we, we, we need to talk about young white men in the school shootings and what is leading them to, you know, these chat rooms and these groups and these ideas that are so literally deadly.
35:15
But also we need to look at our young black men and say what I what people, what ideas, what influences are shaping your idea of what it means to be a man?
And then how is that affecting us in terms of voting and who we vote for?
35:33
And most importantly, how is that affecting women, our choices there, right?
So this is where it gets real.
I’m just trying to with young people.
What I’m finding is the past, you know, is the past.
35:49
I think it’s relevant.
I try to make that case all the time.
But if we can’t connect it to something that that teenagers, college students are experiencing right now in their day-to-day lives, there’s not a sense of broader common good civic responsibility yet.
36:07
It comes.
But so I’m just trying to connect all of this to where you are, young men, how you treat women, how that translates into perceptions of politicians and strength and who you want to lead and the way that affects your mother, your sisters, girlfriends, whatever it might be.
36:31
All of that matters, and all of it has political ramifications.
Yeah, that’s good.
You made me think about, you know, that we we talked about Jim Crow, but then there was also a Jane Crow, right?
Yeah.
Give me, give me a little bit about this because we’re about to get into some Q&A from some live questions that I have in the chat.
36:53
We’re going to get into a few of those.
How did the historical relationship between the Black church and the civil rights movement influence Black voter, you know, black voter mobilization throughout American history?
37:11
All right, the Black church, Black Church was the only Black-owned and operated institution for most of our existence in the United States.
And I think there is a continued importance of and centrality of the Black church.
37:27
So let’s start with the history first.
Number one, when Black people were enslaved and, and, and, and whether you were enslaved or free, it was very difficult for Black people to form our own organization because white people get nervous when Black people gather, because Black people start talking about freedom.
37:49
Maybe think about you.
Start talking about equality, you know, that’s where we active activate and and so they prevented a lot of, in a lot of cases, black people from gathering in large, large groups, particularly after slave revolts.
38:06
So Nat Turner, Denmark VC, as soon as those slave revolts, or attempted slave revolts in the case of Denmark VC, happened, they actually created more laws and more restrictions against black people gathering in large groups without a white person present.
38:24
That included churches, right?
So we couldn’t have our own banks, we couldn’t have our own schools, we couldn’t have our own large businesses, right?
Maybe smaller ones.
But what we did have was spiritual community.
And this is the place, starting from the hush arbors, where enslaved people, after a long day of Labor, would sneak out in the middle of the night, go out into the woods and pray and worship and dance and sing, just to get through to the establishment of the African Methodist Episcopal Church.
39:02
The longest continuously operate, the oldest continuously operating black denomination in the United States had its beginnings in the 1780s and 90s and then formally established in the 1810s to post emancipation, post Civil War.
39:20
The first thing we did was form our own black churches and denominations, right?
So it was the only place where we could go and be called Sir and man instead of boy and girl, even if you’ve grown.
39:36
It was the place where we could be in positions of leadership, Deacon, elder, board head of this committee, organizer of that initiative or project.
It was the only place where we could go and speak about our issues and our concerns and have them heard.
39:53
And it was all filtered through a spiritual lens.
So then the black church becomes not just a faith community.
But a center of the community.
So the black church is where you went when you needed financial assistance.
The black church is where you went when you needed reference to a doctor.
40:12
Find somebody.
Black churches where you went to find out who political candidates were and what they were talking about and how to think through the issues.
And to this day, black churches, I believe, still serve an important function centralizing information and disseminating it in the community.
40:34
Wow, man, you just made me think.
It’s real quick that the black church became a place of healing because the white church was a place of hurt and harm.
And so if there was no, you know, if we were accepted in the white church, there would be no black church.
40:54
I’m not saying that it wouldn’t be any black churches, but the relationship between black and white church would be different.
That’s absolutely right, yes, I’d say.
I’d say there would be no black church without racism in the white church, meaning there would be no need for completely separate black congregations and denominations if it wasn’t for being treated like second class citizens in predominantly white churches.
41:20
That is to say, the difference is are not primarily these basic theological, you know, is, is Jesus God?
Is, is the Bible God’s word?
That’s not what they were arguing over, per SE.
It was simply that black people wanted to be treated as full brothers and sisters in Christ, and they weren’t getting that treatment in predominantly white spaces.
41:43
So they have.
We have to form our own black faith spaces.
Yeah.
Yeah, so you made me think.
There’s a a thought that I’ve had with some of my teams and some of them are even here.
And one of the frustrations with them for for them, and they can correct me if I’m wrong, is that they see the polarization amongst adults.
42:09
And not only do they see the polarization, but they see the immaturity of adults.
And that has frustrated them even with, you know, the presidency politics and watching the behavior of grown-ups.
42:26
What do you say to that when you have teens, when you have a generation of people who see the immaturity, the emotional immaturity and the the bickering and the back and forth and the dehumanization and the name calling and just all of these things happening amongst the people who are supposed to be the models, Christian or not.
42:47
I’m just going to call it what it.
I mean, you have Christians behaving like this.
And So what do you say to the teens and the younger generations with that today?
Set the example, lead a better way.
There’s no excuse for some of the behavior, some of the language, some of the lies and rhetoric that we’re hearing from supposed leaders.
43:12
I don’t think they’re acting like leaders.
If they are, then they’re being bad leaders and we shouldn’t accept that.
And if young people are seeing the hypocrisy there, the inconsistency there, call them out.
43:28
And as a matter of fact, your voices are more important than voices like mine.
I go back to the state of Mississippi.
I have two degrees from there.
I have a masters degree and a PhD from schools in Mississippi, and I remember Mississippi was the last state in the country to have a state flag that had the Confederate emblem on it.
43:53
And that changed in 2020 amid the George Floyd protests.
But how did it change?
Mind you, this, this, this flag had flown since 1896 a 124 years.
It flew through the Jim Crow era.
44:10
It flew through the civil rights movement.
It threw flew through the racial reconciliation movement in the 1990s when the Southern Baptist Convention repented of its pro slavery origins in 1995.
It flew all through that.
It changed in 2020.
Why?
Not just because people were sitting up and paying attention for all 30 seconds to race, right?
44:30
But because politicians, we’re hearing from their sons and daughters, this is racist, this is backward, this is embarrassing.
It must change.
Their own children, their own kids, their own family members, right?
44:47
So my point is this what you’re seeing is true and it’s unacceptable.
Don’t use that as a reason to disengage.
Use that as a reason to call people to a higher standard.
45:05
And you do that best by embodying that standard.
That’s good.
Thank you, Sir.
All right, here we go.
We’re going to get into some some Q&A and before if I have any teams here with me that want to ask a question, they can, but I want to get to some of the ones from our audience.
45:30
And the first one is this Jamar.
Dr. Jamar, I was taught, give them an inch, they will take a mile.
This ingrains the belief and thus and thus fear that you cannot give an inch or all is lost.
45:47
Is that just a white thing?
So I’m not sure if give them an inch and they’ll take a mile is like calling from like an Andrew Johnson kind of a thing.
A white person arguing that you shouldn’t give black people any rights or any space to advocate.
46:11
That was certainly a belief that you have to keep Black people under control.
And if you give them any liberty at all, they will try to take full advantage.
So in terms of politics and voting, yeah, that’s oftentimes a white thing of trying to prevent black people from from voting in their full inclusion.
46:34
But I’m not sure if that’s quite what the what the question was trying to ask.
OK, I got one more.
This one, I like this question because it’s going to, I think it’s going to get into what I’m thinking, but we’ll see.
All right, from a biblical perspective, what are your thoughts on voting?
46:52
And Part 2, I’ll read it twice.
Part 2 is how would Jesus look at voting in America in 2024?
So from a biblical perspective, what are your thoughts on voting and how would Jesus look at voting in America in 2024?
So this is this is the tricky part, right?
47:12
We we all want Jesus to be on our side, whatever your side is, left, right, red, blue, something else, right.
And so then we we take what Jesus said or did and, and we make it fit our political leaning.
47:34
So I think I am not into both sides of them.
I don’t think Democrats and Republicans today are equally bad or doing the same thing at all.
That being said, Jesus is neither Democrat or republican, right?
47:55
So I think what Jesus does is teach us that we are citizens of the Kingdom of heaven and citizens of earthly kingdoms.
Our values as citizens of the Kingdom of heaven should inform our participation as citizens of earthly kingdoms.
48:16
So I don’t think it is more godly or Christian not to vote, not to get involved in politics.
I don’t think that’s what Jesus is arguing or saying by your citizen of the Kingdom of God.
Yeah.
I think what it does is say how can I use my vote to serve others and to love my neighbor?
48:39
That, mind you, that part.
There’s no perfect political party.
There’s no Christian party either.
So I don’t even know.
And, and, and historically black people have understood this.
I don’t even know where we get this modern conception that a politician must check every religious, spiritual, theological box that we ourselves have.
49:04
By the way, the boxes that we have, we don’t even check all them.
Everything like we people vote and you don’t even know how to treat your neighbor right.
Exactly.
They laugh.
Right here tomorrow, they laugh.
I mean, I’m just saying you.
Don’t even know how to treat people but you vote.
49:20
It’s it’s an absolutely foolish standard.
And I say foolish.
Let’s bring that word back because the Bible in Proverbs talks about the difference between wisdom and foolishness.
Come on.
We acting foolish when we say, well, because they’re not this kind of Christian and they don’t support every single policy that I, in my view of Christianity would support.
49:46
I can’t vote for anybody.
Oh, come on, come.
On.
Come on.
So anyway, my, my, my, my, bad.
Point is, I think that we use our vote for the common good, which I think is a Kingdom value.
And I think that we cannot say this is what Micah Edmondson, a pastor in Nashville, said.
50:08
We we cannot say we love our neighbor if we are not also concerned about the systems that oppress our neighbor.
And voting is a way to change the systems that oppress our neighbor.
Ouch.
Or Amen?
I wonder any any of my teens in the room have a question?
50:31
Yeah, come on.
All right, give me a second.
You can.
You can just stand right here to say your name.
So my name is Kayla.
I am, this will be my first year voting.
50:50
And so my question is voting, there’s so many things other than just going out to vote.
So there’s like research and other things like that.
So when older voters ask or tell younger voters, like you got to vote, like you got to vote, but there is a lack of guidance on how to do that, there is a lot of frustration on how to kind of go forth and do those things.
51:14
So how should older voters guide younger voters and how to vote strategically?
So, yeah, that’s good.
That’s so good.
So this sounds like, you know, voting is the specific action, but that’s really sort of the end of a long chain of actions that we have to take prior to.
51:35
So this goes back to what we said at the top of the hour about, you know, preparing before you’re 18 or before you’re ready to vote.
Yeah #1 Have a steady diet of current events.
This is another frustration I have with my undergraduate students.
51:52
They’ve never opened the news app on their phone.
If, if you’ve got an iPhone, it comes embedded with a news app.
It’s a white background with a red letter N on it.
And what I like about it is it’s a, it’s a, it’s a digest it, it, it pulls from hundreds of news sites.
52:11
And you can read top five or go to CNN.
They give you top five stories.
I listen to NPR daily.
What is it called?
On point and they it’s 15 minutes and they give you 3 of the top news stories a day.
52:30
If you’re not doing that, NPR up first.
If you’re not doing that, you’re not going to know the latest wild thing somebody said or the particular issue that is that debate, right?
One of them is college loan forgiveness.
52:51
And it keeps going through the courts through executive action, all of this.
That’s going to make a really big difference for you, right?
Whether whether you have 10s of thousands of dollars in debt after you go to college or that, but those debts are forgiven, right?
So one steady news diet #2 don’t just think national, think local.
53:13
Some really critical elections are District Attorney.
Those are the people who recommend sentencing for people on trial so they can do plea deals or they can recommend the maximum punishment.
53:30
So if you’re concerned about incarceration, your local District Attorney who’s an elected official makes a big deal.
Same with judges, often times those are elected officials.
Sheriffs are elected officials a lot of times.
So there’s different levels of politics that that you can get involved in.
53:50
I think a really great way is to volunteer.
If you don’t know how to get involved, literally go to the local library or you can ask a teacher at school, how can we, you know, volunteer like I did as a poll worker.
It’s not glamorous work, but honestly, it’s the real work of democracy.
54:09
Come on, Voting is just one piece of a of a bigger chain of actions that we need to constantly take.
But number one is being formed and, and I’ll say this, this generation has it harder than any other because not the obstacles themselves devoting, although there there are those, but because of distraction.
54:37
You got a hand clap on that one, Doctor Jamar, you have another class.
There is a court case, there is a, there’s a, there’s a, a medical study now that shows how they went back and they looked at emails, internal emails, I believe at Tiktok.
54:55
That said, we know this is like completely geared, especially to keep young people trapped in doom scrolling.
I mean, like they knew this and then somebody said if you’re not paying for the product, you are the product.
55:21
My.
God, if you’re not paying for the product, you are the product.
I can download Tiktok for free, create a profile for free and start scrolling.
And guess what?
The product is your attention.
They sell your attention, your time on the app to advertisers and make billions.
55:42
Meanwhile, they take all of your habits and all of your patterns and use that in the algorithm to keep you scrolling and scrolling and scrolling and scrolling.
And now you see all these ads popping up on TikTok and they look just like regular TikTok videos, but there’s some banner there that you can click and buy a product.
56:01
You’re the product.
So anyway, all of that distraction, whether it’s just one particular app or social media in general, or the information age in general, there’s everything to keep you distracted.
And the people who don’t want you to vote are just fine with that.
56:19
So it’s a good segue to that question someone asked in the chat.
How can I tell if information in the news is accurate and unbiased?
So don’t worry about it being unbiased, because there’s no such thing.
56:35
Everyone has a bias.
Come on.
That is, that is simply to say everyone has a perspective and a point of view.
There’s no true objectivity, right?
As matter of fact, that would be extremely boring news to just read off a lift list of facts without any interpretation.
56:53
You just want to know what is the bias, what is the angle?
That part OK.
And and listen, most mainstream media is factually reliable.
57:09
All right?
So, so, so here’s the straight middle.
Go to Associated Press, Reuters, Reuters, some some other ones.
USA TODAY, although that’s a conglomerate that’s kind of owned and controlled by, you know, one group.
57:30
But in general, right, those are those are much more kind of straight news reporting.
But then you can go to the major networks, ABCNBCCBS, those are pretty, those are pretty center left, right.
57:47
If, if you’re looking for more center right, you can do things like Wall Street Journal, Forbes, you know, a couple others, but most of the ones that are that would be in like a, they call it a news aggregator.
They take an aggregate of all different kinds of news outlets.
58:04
Most of what you would find on your, on your like Apple news app, it’s, it’s readable.
What you want to stay away from are the extreme left or right and particularly on the right.
They have a much more robust media ecosystem.
58:23
So it’s not even just Fox News now that’s far.
That’s right.
But there are further, right?
You know one American News network, OANN, right?
The Blaze, Some of these other ones.
Turning point or something?
58:38
Turning yeah, that’s, that’s an organization, a nonprofit, but they put out news quote, UN quote news articles, right?
Help us, Lord.
So I would stick to some of those more well known news because they’re beholden to journalistic standards, most of them, right?
58:55
Hopefully they still follow them.
And some of these other ones that say they’re news are really just opinion outlet generators, and you do need to be wary of them.
The people like to take opinions and make them fat and truth.
That’s a whole nother.
OK, here’s a question.
59:12
Here’s a good one.
How does the American Are you going to like this one?
How does the American brand of Christianity affect the way we can’t we conduct US politics and how we treat each other?
So let’s talk about white Christian nationalism.
I knew you’re going to like it.
59:29
Go ahead, Sir.
White Christian nationalism.
So the the people we call evangelicals in the United States, a majority of of them are white and a majority of them are Republican.
Those two facts are not separate since at least the 1950s and you could go back a couple of decades if you wanted.
59:55
What happened in the 1950s where in the post World War 2 era of history, United States had just won.
By the way, US wasn’t really considered a superpower prior to that.
Now we’re coming into our own on a global stage, and our big.
1:00:12
Opponent is, is communism, particularly Russia, Russian communism, right?
And so it’s around this time in the 1950s as as we’re in the quote UN quote Cold War that we get the rise of anti communism.
1:00:27
And one of the ways they seek to push back against communism is by calling it godless, atheistic, UN American.
So they set up communism is the exact opposite of everything America stands for, which is democracy, faith, Christianity.
1:00:47
And oh, by the way, white, they don’t say that part out loud, but it’s there.
It’s there.
And and so that’s where you get, you can look it up.
You could say right, there’s a sign online when from the 60s you can look up the phrase race mixing is communism.
1:01:06
Race mixing his communism.
Somebody holding up a poster.
And a white.
Protest.
Yes.
Happy.
About it.
So the question is about, you know, American Christianity and, and, and voting.
So what I’m trying to say is that’s the, the, the, the Cold War era.
1:01:25
Then you get in the 1970s and 1980s, people, certain white people are freaked out about the civil rights movement, the women’s rights movement, LGBTQ rights movement.
All of that is coming up in the 1960s and early 70s, Black Power movement, right?
1:01:42
And they’re like, we’re losing our country.
The America we knew is, is is gone.
We’re going, we’re going.
Down the total.
What America are you talking about?
The regress right back when America was great.
You know that, America.
1:01:58
Yeah, the great America.
So it partly in response to that fear, understand fear is a critical part of this.
There’s the rise of what they call the religious right, right, meaning politically right, Republican and the moral majority.
1:02:15
Jerry Falwell senior, his slogan was get him saved, get him baptized, get him voting.
And this is the rise of mass media used to affect Christian voting.
1:02:32
So what the the moral majority did was they went to media companies literally bought their mailing list.
This is back in the day when everything was done by the letter, right?
They bought those addresses and started mailing out to millions of people.
1:02:49
These voter guys, these, you know, communism is affecting the church and all of this stuff.
And so for the past 40 plus years, since the early 1980s, white evangelical Christians have been discipled into thinking that the only truly Christian way to vote is Republican.
1:03:08
That indoctrination.
Indoctrination.
And so American Christianity has been wrapped up in particular with right wing conservatism and politics, particularly in the past 40 plus years or so.
But the conflation of religion and politics, of Jesus being for this party of that other, that is a major issue that all Christians should be looking out for.
1:03:34
Oh, here’s a good one.
What are the parallels, if any, to Kamala Harris?
Her name is Kamala, right people?
OK, sidebar to Kamala Harris talking about having Republicans in her cabinet, to Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Johnson.
1:03:58
Does this concern you?
It depends on who she picks in general.
Political diversity in a cabinet.
It’s not bad or negative.
Doesn’t have to be.
The question is what kind of Republican are she talking to?
1:04:16
George Bush, Mike Pence, Republican, is she talking a, you know, whoever other extreme you know, is she talking to Marjorie Taylor Green kind of Republican, right.
So that there there’s a far right extreme faction within the Republican Party that’s really taking over the Republican Party.
1:04:38
But there are also never Trump Republicans.
A lot of them got kicked out of office, didn’t get reelected right.
Right.
Talks about because what’s that?
So people don’t want to talk about them.
Right, right, right.
1:04:54
So I think that’s probably who Vice President Harris would want.
Some of those kind of Never Trump Republicans like Adam Kinzinger served on the January 6th committee as a Republican and some others who again, most of whom lost their elected office because they went against the far right of the party.
1:05:25
So if that if those are the folks, I think OK, I think there there is some chatter online, some concern that a President Harris would be too moderate, too conservative and then by adding Republicans to her cabinet, to them that kind of signals a a, a more moderate conservative presidency.
1:05:46
That’s good.
Yeah.
There’s another question that came up, and it made me think about what Jesus said.
I’m going to start with this first, Jesus said, paraphrase.
In order to follow me, in order to be my disciple, you got to hit your Mama and your daddy and your cousin and them brother and sister and I’ve.
1:06:05
It’s going to be this division, right?
That you going to pick me, You going to rock with me?
Then you got to hate them in that context of of what Jesus communicated about us being citizens of the Kingdom and being his followers that we have to pretty much turn away from the ways of the world.
1:06:24
So what would you say to individuals who are voting differently than what their family votes?
So this is where the rubber hits the road for a lot of people voting.
1:06:41
Oftentimes it’s about relationships, community and identity.
So that if you vote a certain way, whether that’s Democrat or Republican or something else, it can actually alienate you from parents, siblings, faith communities.
1:06:59
It can be others can view it as a betrayal of your identity, whether you’re Christian identity, your racial identity, what have you.
So it’s it’s, it’s, it has, it has real impact and I’m not we should acknowledge that and not minimize that.
1:07:17
It’s very difficult.
That all being said, vote your conscience.
So, you know, I, as a historian and as an engaged citizen, know very clearly which way I’m voting this election.
1:07:36
But also my message is not everyone must vote how I do.
It’s that we must all vote our conscience.
But understand, here’s the second part.
People don’t like voting your conscience has consequences.
1:07:58
Voting your conscience has consequences.
Meaning vote however you want.
No Christian should, because of your religion, try to say you must vote this way or another.
That’s right.
I think that’s, I think that’s an error.
1:08:13
I think, I think we have freedom and liberty right in this area.
Not a salvation issue.
It’s not, it’s not a salvation issue, but I do think there are love of neighbor.
Issues so if you say yes.
1:08:28
Hey, I voted my conscience, but that politicians policies are making life a living hell for your neighbors.
You got to own part part of that and say that voting your conscience has consequences.
1:08:44
And by the way, that’s going to go no matter who wins is if we vote for that person, It’s not that we’re responsible for every word they say or action they take that we approve of, right?
But we do have to say, well, if that’s the person I supported, I also need to hold them accountable.
1:09:05
I also need to say, hey, you got my vote.
But that doesn’t, that’s not a, that’s not a rubber stamp of OK on everything you do.
And if there’s stuff that you’re doing that I don’t like, I’m going to let you know about it.
Calling, writing in, protesting, all of those things.
1:09:23
That’s good.
Yeah, this is this is a quick this is a quick answer type question.
Do you think increasing polarization will cause the birth of 1/3 political party similar to pre civil war period?
Unlikely, if for the mere fact it cost so much money.
1:09:40
Yeah, I don’t think so either.
Yeah, just be too much and people don’t have the the money.
No.
And I think I think something more like like ranked choice voting is, is more likely where it’s not necessarily winner take all.
So if your top choice doesn’t get a majority, you look at the 2nd and the third choice and I think at a local and county level and a city level, some communities are doing this and I think it’s a fairer way to look at voting.
1:10:13
Yeah.
Oh, here we go.
Yeah.
You got any other questions from people in the room?
Say your name.
Yeah, gosh, I wish that was what there.
I’m so sorry.
You’re fine.
Yeah.
My name is Brandon.
Actually, I heard you speak a couple weeks ago when you were in Ohio speaking at a local.
1:10:33
No way of ours.
Yeah.
I guess my question is as we’re hopefully moving into like a post Trump era, what do we need to focus on then?
Because obviously a lot of the rhetoric.
We’re seeing is we’re not going back at least on, you know, I guess from a Kamala Harris standpoint, but like.
Once you know, we get past probably moving into a post repair, what do we need to focus on like for our future?
1:10:55
Obviously we’re voting for a better future.
What does that look like?
That’s so good.
That’s such a great question.
By the way, I’m doing on October 22nd in online webinar called Preparing Our Souls for the Election.
1:11:11
Now that’s for my Subset subscribers.
I’m happy to offer a free subscription to anybody on this call who’s interested, and I’ll be talking for type specifically about this.
One of the things that we have to prepare for is not Election Day, but election season.
1:11:28
Not Election Day, but election season.
So number one, we may not know accurately the results of the election for several days, if not weeks.
And part of this is voter suppression and stalling tax tactics, right #2 nothing is certain until Inauguration Day.
1:11:49
That’s in January, late January, I think this year.
So January 6/20/21 was Inauguration Day where they were supposed to formally.
Well, it was supposed they were supposed to formally ratify, right?
So, so we have to, that’s the key date, no matter who wins.
1:12:07
You know, November is one part, but January is another part.
Then you said, you know, after that, let’s say Kamala Harris wins.
Number one, what we have to do is shore up laws and policies protecting the right to vote.
We have to make it harder for people to suppress the vote at a federal level.
1:12:25
So we have to make sure that people can’t rank, game the system and rig it #2.
I think it’s going to be really, really vital that we move aggressively to counteract climate change.
We’re we’re hearing about this, these hurricanes on the East Coast, droughts on the West Coast, wildfire, all of that is caused by the earth heating up, which I used to think would just lead to drought everywhere.
1:12:55
No, with the Earth heating up means is more extreme of all kinds of weather, cold, heat, water, drought, all of that.
So we’re seeing that.
And then still racial justice is in all of this.
1:13:14
The only majorities in terms of demographic groups, the only places where Donald Trump has a majority is with white demographic groups, white men, a slight majority of white women, white non college educated folks, all of.
1:13:33
So we’ve got to address the racial elephant in the room when it comes to our two party system and understand that we’ve got to make it clear that a party that appeals to racial resentment, that that’s just not going to work anymore.
1:13:53
Not going to work.
No, that’s good.
Thank you.
Yeah.
All right, here’s our next question.
Here we go.
What are the major challenges and opportunities facing the Black vote in the upcoming election cycles?
I mentioned black men, young black men in particular.
1:14:14
If you read some of their answers, it’s a, nonsensical and B, heartbreaking, right?
There’s this cynicism, there’s this apathy, there’s also this ignorance there.
So I think that’s a major challenge.
Although in the same breath, I’ll say the defection of black people to another party is overblown.
1:14:33
Like in the mid to high 80s overall black people are still voting together.
And then when it comes to black women, it’s low 90 percentage are are all voting the same way.
So that that that hasn’t changed dramatically, but it is changing some.
1:14:51
I think a bigger threat is voter turn out, particularly in swing states.
Unfortunately with this, you mentioned before the Electoral College, with the Electoral College system, it’s going to be 7 states that are called swing states that really determine who’s going to be the next president.
1:15:18
And you can just Google, you know, swing states 2000, 2020, 4.
But it’s like Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Georgia, Arizona and one or two others.
So, and it comes down to a margin of, you know, in the 2020 election, Trump called the Secretary of State, can you find me 11,000 votes?
1:15:48
That’s all he needed out.
Loud.
So yeah, and said it out loud.
Which is illegal right?
And still hasn’t been held accountable for that.
But my point being 11,000 votes out of a state of 1,000,000 is nothing.
That’s how thin the margin is.
1:16:05
And So what is the challenge?
It’s voter turn out, particularly in swing states, because if people on election, they decide not to go and vote or mail in their vote, just you know, it’s it’s not on their To Do List, not a priority.
Like that has a huge difference.
1:16:21
And if we can get younger people out, black people out, that could swing the election.
Oh, this is a good question.
Thank you.
You hinted on this a little, but let’s get into a little deeper.
1:16:36
How have black women in particular shaped the intersection of faith and voting rights over the years?
It’s not fair, but Black people, Black women in particular, have saved our country again and again and again.
A marginalized people and oppressed people have a have a perspective on justice and political policy that is very sharp because they know how stuff effects them negatively.
1:17:10
You mentioned Jane Crow earlier.
Black women sit at the intersection of both racism and sexism.
So black women see these interlocking oppressions.
Oftentimes, poverty is in the mix as well.
And Black women have been forced to be the community caregivers, so they could never just look out for their own interests.
1:17:38
They’ve always had to look out for the interests of husbands, of children, of extended families, of grandparents, of the local community, Right.
And they’ve always had to put the community needs at the forefront.
1:17:55
Literally, yeah.
On their backs.
Literally on their backs and even or in their wombs or whatever.
Yeah, you made me think very quickly historically about wet nurses and Black women and the history behind the trauma behind that and, and just how just generationally there has been this weight on the backs on the bodies, let’s just say the bodies of Black women voluntarily and involuntarily.
1:18:30
That’s right, that’s right.
And, and, and a lot of this responsibility is due to injustice.
Black women shouldn’t have to carry all of us.
Shaniqua Walker Barnes is a professor and she she wrote a book, too heavy a yoke.
1:18:47
It’s it’s it’s a great meditation on the ways Black women have been forced to carry burdens that weren’t theirs to bear.
All that to say, it’s given Black women a keen, acute political sense of the common good.
And most consistently, they voted for the party of progress and, you know, follow Black women, learn from Black women most often vote like Black women because, because because they understand how both racism and sexism can affect people.
1:19:22
That’s good.
You made me think about this quote I heard.
I think it was.
It might have been Trevor Noah.
He says something along the lines that if you want to learn about America and what America really is, listen to black women.
1:19:39
Pretty much saying they’ll teach you if you listen to black women.
Oh, this is a good one.
How do faith leaders address voter suppression issues that disproportionately affect black voters?
So let’s name some of those voter suppression issues.
1:19:58
By the way, give give Alicia a prize.
He’s got a few different questions in here.
He’s very, very engaged.
Let’s talk about voter suppression tactics because it’s subtle, because you don’t have to use the word black or race to suppress the votes of black people.
1:20:18
One, they’re moving polling locations, places where you go to physically vote further and further away.
From black communities now picture traffic in Atlanta.
You need a voting polling place that’s close to where you reside otherwise and you’re not going to get there on time, right.
1:20:38
Another thing they’re doing is I think in Georgia was the one about the bottles of water you can’t handle out hand out refreshments in line and you waiting out in the hot sun or waiting for hours.
And not only are they moving them, Yeah, isn’t that.
1:20:56
Always move the line.
The line is it’s.
It’s always moving.
That’s right, that’s right.
It always adapts.
And not only are they moving them further away from black communities, they’re reducing the number.
So if there aren’t as many polling places, then the lines are longer when you go to vote.
1:21:14
So if you got a lunch break and you want to vote on it, it might take you 3 or 4 hours.
You can’t do that because in it it’s bonkers way because, again, there are people who want to suppress the vote, not expand it.
One basic thing is it should be a national holiday voting day.
1:21:33
Everybody should get a day off work so that they have time to vote too.
Much access.
Exactly.
They’re trying to limit access.
And why are they trying to limit access?
Because they know your vote is power.
So why would you lay down that power by not voting?
1:21:51
Why would you give it up?
So anyway, you said, what can faith leaders do #1 inform the people?
This is where black churches are helpful still, because somebody asked a question about how, how do we know we can trust information sources?
Well, pastors and church leaders are still mostly trusted information sources, right?
1:22:09
Like because you know you’re passing, you seen them week after week, maybe even year after year.
You know they’re not out to get you or trick you or fool you.
So churches become a place of not only of information dissemination where we get information, but where we feel like we can trust the information we’re getting.
1:22:27
Bring in experts, right?
Sunday school hour, we need to study the Bible.
But leading up to elections that we pause, bring in some folks.
I’m not even talking about people running for office.
I’m talking about people who understand voting.
1:22:44
So these can be people from nonprofit world.
These can be non elected government officials, just administrators, right?
Bring them in to help inform people go into the school.
Faith leaders also should set the example.
Are they volunteering at the polls?
1:23:00
By the way, another voter suppression tactic is intimidation.
So you’re going to see this year, I promise you, a lot of these militias coming in camouflage gear, vests, open carry state.
So they’re going to have pistols, maybe even rifles at both at polling stations.
1:23:20
And the excuse is we’re here to make sure, you know, everybody follows the rules.
There’s nothing fishy going on, the elections not stolen.
But what it does when you see a big white man with a beard and sunglasses and guns and camo that is designed to intimidate people of color and make it less likely that they’ll vote.
1:23:47
So let’s be aware.
I got time.
I’m going to give you one more.
We’re going to go one more question, then we’re going to wrap things up because I think this is a really good one that’s going to help a lot of people.
What’s the most succinct way to explain to people how black church involvement is not the same as Christian nationalism?
1:24:08
That’s that’s a great question.
The most succinct way is that black Christian political involvement leads to an expansion of rights and democratic participation.
White Christian nationalism leads to a limiting of rights and political participation.
1:24:26
Say that one more.
Time black Christian political participation leads to an expansion of rights and political democratic participation.
White Christian nationalism leads to a limiting of rights and democratic participation because white Christian nationalists only want certain people to vote to lead to control the country.
1:24:47
Black Christian political participation has generally meant let’s offer the right, and if it’s a right, everybody should have it.
You don’t have to earn it.
Let’s offer that right to everybody, every citizen, and let’s increase participation, not narrow it or limit it.
1:25:05
Awesome.
Yeah.
Thank y’all so much for coming out.
Thank you so much for your questions.
Thank you for giving a care you give me.
You don’t have to.
Yeah, yes.
Yeah.
Great questions, I hope.
I mean, listen, blame Mr. Jones.
1:25:22
He said it for 90 minutes.
If you were yawning, ready to go to sleep, that’s his fault.
But this did my heart good.
I needed this.
I needed you all.
I needed the encouragement.
I needed your engagement.
And so thank you so much from the bottom of my heart for for caring, for getting some information.
1:25:42
And the one thing I asked from you is that you pass it on whether you share this recording.
I mean, look, you can do this right now.
You don’t just have to get involved by voting.
I was in student government in high school.
I was a Rep.
You know, I was, I was not a very good one, not a very responsible one, but it taught me about voting.
1:26:03
It taught me about running for office, all of those things that taught me about debating over policies.
You can do that right now.
You can organize, you know, a watch party of this video or something else that’s shorter or more interesting or whatever.
1:26:20
I just like think about it even like during lunch or something, say, OK, how can we use this information where we are?
Because the most important voices for other young people are young people.
So I can’t do it, but you can.
1:26:36
But thank you for being here.
So yeah, so you all, my audience, my people watching, my crew here.
Thank you all for your time, your participation, and just remember to go check us out at bethebridge.com.
You can also follow us on Instagram at Be the Bridge.
1:26:54
You can also follow the Youth and University page, where I am the youth and university program manager at Be the Bridge Youth and University.
And Doctor Jamar, how can the people follow you?
I’m on all the socials.
I think I’m most active on Instagram, but now that’s becoming an old people thing, apparently.
1:27:13
But anyway, you can catch me on Instagram at Jamar Tisby.
And especially my books.
There’s young readers versions of How to Fight Racism and it’s not out yet, but in January there’s going to be a young readers version of my latest book, The Spirit of Justice.
1:27:31
So be on the lookout for those, but you can head over to the spiritofjustice.com and get all the info.
Awesome, awesome.
Well, thank you all again.
Share it with your friends, share it with family members.
And we just want you to know that we appreciate your time, Doctor Jamar.
Thank you for doing this and being a part of this and just making this happen.
1:27:49
I think it’s going to bless so many lives and encourage and inspire so many young people and parents and adults across the nation and across and across the world.
And until we meet again, you all have a blessed one and we’ll see you soon.
Thanks for listening to the Be the Bridge Podcast.
1:28:09
To find out more about Be the Bridge and what we offer, visit bethebridge.com.
Partner with us in this work at bethebridge.com/give, Connect with us on social media, and remember, you are not alone in your pursuit of righteousness and justice.
1:28:26
Latasha Morrison is the executive producer, Sarah Connatser is the producer, and transcripts are done by a wonderful team of volunteers.
Thanks for listening.
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