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Latasha Morrison, founder of Be the Bridge, interviews activist and author Kathy Khang about practical ways to raise your voice in real life, the difference between disruption and discernment, and troublemaking for the sake of the Gospel. Kathy also explores making authentic justice-minded friends in white evangelical spaces and especially the intersection of race and gender within a ministry vocation.
First published on Facebook Live – August 14, 2018
Resources mentioned:
BOOK: Kathy Khang, Raise Your Voice: Why We Stay Silent and How to Speak Up
MOVIE: Warner Brothers, Crazy Rich Asians
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This transcript is ai generated and has not been checked for errors.
0:00
Today we’re bringing to you another one, our Facebook archives interviews.
And so this was one of my favorite ones, this was with my friend, Kathy Kang, she’s a writer speaker, coffee drinker, and a yoga teacher.
She is incredible and she’s also really funny and she’s written a book called, Raise Your Voice.
0:21
While we stay silent and how to speak up.
And I thought this was a good one for this season that we’re in and our country to realize how to use our voice and how to disagree well with others.
So in her book, Raise Your Voice, she wants to challenge and encourage everyone to find and use their influence to bring about the kingdom of God on Earth as it is.
0:44
Is in heaven, and you can order her book where books are sold.
So, here’s Kathy Kane.
You’re listening to sounds of Justice, a be the bridge podcast.
1:03
Hello, everyone.
This is Latasha, Maurice and I am the founder of be the bridge and we are here tonight again and this time we Another friend of mine, I have some wonderful friends.
Like this is amazing, like all my friends are like writing books and doing stuff and doing big things in the world and changing the world and whatnot.
1:27
You know.
But anyway, I have a friend Cathy Kangas on here live with us tonight.
I have Tiffany Tiffany actually is a betta Bridger and she also served with Kathy on her launch Team.
1:43
So it’s night.
And so we have Kathy’s book here and it is called Raise Your Voice.
While we stay silent and how to speak up.
And one thing I know about Kathy is that she knows how to speak up.
2:00
But let me tell you.
One thing I want you to know about Kathy.
She’s one of the most genuine sweet is kind people that I know and let me tell you about this.
I met Kathy.
Where did we meet Kathy?
Was it you Specialties yes, we knew each other from online with Cena.
2:23
Yes, mine.
And I’m going to tell you these online relationships.
I have several like friends for life that I’ve met online.
I mean, some incredible people that I’ve met online.
2:38
So online is not all bad.
It’s how he is it and so we met in real life.
And a you Specialties conference that both of us.
We were speaking Ed and then got to know each other there and I think it was so hot.
2:55
I think we were in San Diego, right?
It was hot my goodness, they go in October.
So from text to not having the heat like like like this is San Diego’s gonna be California weather, you know, it’s October, you know, I Can get a scar phone or something.
3:23
Right?
The week, it was hotter than it was like 98 Degrees like record highs.
I bought those little booty, a little sway booties.
And my feet were crying a river.
3:43
And so Kathy feed them all, because I’m just gonna tell you, I don’t like my feet in the summertime.
I just keep my adventure we had, and then I was invited to a, an event in Chicago, and it’s right.
4:11
Yeah.
And can you forgot, No.
Yes, I do remember that.
It also was hot.
Yes yeah and I should have brought the mug.
4:32
Keep on acting weird.
Yes, Kathy.
You I was coming up and she said, hey if you don’t have a hotel you know you’re welcome to stay with me and she just opened up her home to this person.
She just met online and a comic book.
4:48
And I gladly took her up and stayed with her.
Yes and have been her family and everything.
So that’s how do these online?
The conversations can really turn into friendships and we have Tiffany here and Tiffany is great to have you here and I know Kathy’s great is excited about her her launch Team and so we’re going to just go ahead and get started but I did want to go over just Just so those of you who are just tuning in and maybe you’ve never heard of Kathy and you have no idea who she is, and you don’t follow her online or maybe you follow all her line, but you’re gonna get to know a little bit more about Kathy King.
5:32
And so, she’s an activist, her roots, in her voice, and her Identity, or in the image of God.
Because God created us in our ethnicity and gender are voice and uniquely expressed them through the totality of who we are.
5:48
We are Created to speak and we can both speak up for ourselves and speak up for the on behalf of others.
And I know Kathy and bodies that and then it says be silent.
No more of you have wondered when and how to speak to hear God’s invitation to you, to find the Stewart, your authentic voice, whether in word or in deed to communicate, the good news in a messed up.
6:14
World as you discern.
God’s voice, calling you to speak, you will Discover how your voice sounds as you impress God’s heart, as you express, God’s heart to others in the world will hear you loud and clear.
And so this is in.
6:30
So this really shows you when when Kathy speaking online, this is not her, just frivolously speaking, but this is her using the voice that God, gave her to speak.
Truth into Dark Places, and I think given getting a deeper understanding of the person, Helps you understand, just hurts a whole and why she wrote an entire book for this.
6:59
Okay.
So thank you guys for being with us in that introduction and so I want to just Dive Right In ink at the ready?
Yes, I am.
Oh yeah, knows we just kind of go with the flow.
She likes to go with the flow.
7:14
I do you go with the flow?
We went on a tour.
Philadelphia.
Well, yes for fun.
That was fun.
Yes.
Kathy wanted me to see Philadelphia.
We were just bent and we went on a break a break.
7:40
She was not gonna go on a horse and buggy ride with know.
Is that now In your book you give story examples and how you have raised your voice and past jobs.
Can you share some of those examples?
7:57
Because I think this these are some practical things for us as great Builders to understand.
Like you’re not just raising your voice online but how do you embody your real life?
You know what?
Well, you know, actually I mean we had talked before going live but there’s there’s a more recent Recent example, that happened at home.
8:22
So I have three kids. 22 year old daughter, 19 year old son and a 16 year old son.
And so, the two boys are home for the summer and Corbin my 19 year old was talking to me about some things with his friends and you know, relationships and friendships and all that kind of stuff.
8:44
And at one point he used a phrase that’s pretty common.
Amongst teenagers bros before.
And it Rhymes.
And yeah, yeah.
9:01
I mean, I like the other the girl’s version, which is fries before guys.
Okay.
But the other one bros before and I any said it and, you know, as a, as a parent and as a mom of teenagers, they don’t always willingly talk and share what’s going on in their lives.
9:26
You really want to kind of be there and be present and I had to decide very quickly whether or not I was going to stop him in mid story and correct him or just let him you know, tell me the story and I just I couldn’t let it go and I just said hey you know what, you need to back up and we need to talk about that phrase.
9:43
You used I know that you use that phrase.
I’ve heard you know teenagers I see it online.
It’s not.
Okay, hmm.
And it’s one of those things that as a parent, I think I could have easily let Oh and decided, you know what?
9:58
I’m going to pick that up later.
I’m going to talk to him about that later.
I just want to have this mother-son bonding moment and I may have remembered later, maybe not, there are a lot of things, I forgot it, but I think that is a good example of what it means to kind of be ready in the moment for these conversations, that it can happen at any time.
10:27
And it did.
I mean we were on our way out of the house and you just have to decide.
You know what, I’m going to stop this conversation.
We’re going to go over.
Why?
That’s not okay.
And you know hey you know what’s going on in the world right now?
Write me to church to like, you know, what’s going on?
10:46
We need to think about that.
So, well, it’s real life, it’s not the Glamorous, you know, like online kind of stuff, right?
Right.
And I love you.
No, I think we were together.
One time of you were telling me this story just in the height of everything that’s been happening.
11:04
Just just with a lot of people of color just in public places where you’re seeing just the uptick in a lot of the racial aggression.
And so I know recently, you were with your family somewhere and someone lashed out at you in front of your children and And I want you to just describe how you handled that situation and and why you handled it the way you did in front of your children.
11:37
Yeah.
So we were in line at a fast food restaurant at a, at an oasis because we are on a road trip and this older white gentleman decided that he didn’t need to stand in line and just cut in front of us.
11:56
And proceeded to actually engage me in kind of mock my initial shock and it was as if he was waiting for me to do something.
And I could tell my son did not want me to engage.
12:13
Right?
It’s just, you know, like Mom just let it go and at that moment again, it was one of those things where I realized yeah, I could let it go and turn the other cheek but I just said sir, there’s a lie Line and you can go stand behind me and all these other people that would be fine and he proceeded to engage in some very basal terms about, you know, that I should go back to where I came from and that, you know, rules for him and me are different.
12:45
And, and there was a moment where I just had to take a breath.
Because I’ve seen these things, these types of energy, Actions and altercations, you know, posted online.
13:02
And I thought, oh my gosh, this is really happening to me.
And so I grabbed my phone and I kind of stumbled and was able to pick it up so that I could start recording him.
And I said, sir, you know that is inappropriate.
13:18
It’s unacceptable.
What did you just say to me to get it on camera?
And, and I think part of the reason why, I decided to do that was that because these types of altercations in.
Our interactions are becoming more public and more prevalent.
13:39
I wanted to show my son, it’s okay.
And it’s actually important even though you don’t know whether or not someone is going to come to your Aid or support you.
And eventually there was a younger white man who did He did exactly what folks say you need to do you, you physically put yourself in between and and he was addressing me at first, you know?
14:07
Ma’am, are you okay?
Is there anything I can do?
And it was textbook and then he turned to the gentleman and, you know, tried to kind of make him move physically away from me but it was also one of those things where I also wanted my son’s to see that.
14:25
Even I as a Smaller woman and much smaller compared to the gentleman who was much taller and there were.
And there also was this line of people behind us who said Nothing, who did nothing that that their his mom, my son’s mom, like, he could see his mom standing up to this and even though I was scared, I was obviously shaking and nervous that it was also important not to let Let that pass.
14:58
Because in part there were so many people, just standing there, not doing anything and not saying anything to this man who was being, very obviously racist.
And I have no regrets of that moment.
15:16
I just I needed my son to see that it was okay.
Yeah, I think that’s, you know, we hear these stories and we see these stories online, but when these things are happening to people that, you know, and that you love and that you are in relationship with, it makes it even more real, you know, it’s like that, that empathy and that level where, you know, just because you don’t see it.
15:42
It happening.
Does it mean it’s not happening?
What would you do?
Like if this is the situation that Kathy describe you know Would you be the person that did it the right way?
You know make sure that she was all right.
Put their self in between and make sure she was all right, and then address the situation but there was a whole line of people that just stood there and you know and I think that’s something when because I think people stand there because they don’t know what to do or how to do it.
16:12
And so this is the perfect example for, you know, your book.
And I think it probably the reason why you This book and I Know Tiffany has a question for you and Tiffany, you can ask your question.
Hi, thank you.
16:29
I I loved this book.
Maybe not because I need encouragement to speak, but I need I need to be remembered through reminded to rein it in.
And I loved how you talked about being not speaking up and just being disruptive for the sake of being disruptive.
16:50
But remembering that our goal is to bring the gospel into our conversations with people and hopefully God uses us to transform them.
I was hoping you could share a little bit more about Discerning when to speak, whether it’s in real life or online.
17:07
There are different people that you might maybe feel that you you have a good chance to work with them.
And then there are some people that you might feel.
Like I just don’t think this is the right time with this person, or maybe this isn’t my battle with this person but I have a hard time telling the two apart.
17:31
Yeah, I do too sometimes and it’s just as difficult in life as it is online, right?
So online the saying is don’t feed the trolls and sometimes it’s kind of fun to feed the trolls.
17:48
I’m going to confess and and sometimes it’s it’s fun.
Because part of it is trying to see not only can you engage that person, but can you engage the audience, right?
18:06
It who’s listening in and I and I think I write about this but I have found in my real life part of it is that it is a discipline and it’s a practice.
I don’t go into what I’m doing whether it’s online or in person without having been in prayer and being in discernment.
18:27
All Long about understanding not only the power of my voice, but also the power of my silence.
And so we’re going to get it wrong.
We are going to get it wrong and I don’t think there’s an easy formula to getting it right all the time.
18:45
But I think part of it is remembering I see this as part of our discipleship when we talk about discernment it’s not just oh, is do I take this job?
Or this job, it’s in this moment.
19:02
What is the holy spirit inviting me into?
Am I supposed to say something?
Am I supposed to do something?
Or am I supposed to just listen?
And I think that is all of it, right?
It’s that’s whole life discipleship.
19:18
It’s not just about how do you raise your voice in a given moment?
And here’s the formula.
It’s how are we living Our Lives?
On a daily basis and we’re going to get it wrong.
That’s good.
I know you talked about how culturally if we look at culturally you’ve been from a more Collective culture and more of a, what we would.
19:44
We would call us shame culturally, you know how does that play into?
How does that silence?
As so when you talk about the stereotypes that people have for minorities and especially You know, as an Asian-American.
Like how, how does that play out in silence and you and everyone, you know, sure.
20:06
So I’m Korean American and And you know, Tasha as a black woman, right there, we code-switch while the time and you learn that in certain circumstances, in certain situations, we’re going to be received better if we speak a certain way, present ourselves a certain way.
20:32
And, and I was told and learned right at school.
You’re supposed to raise your hand, but don’t raise it too many times because then you’re like, a bra.
Noser and trying to be a teacher’s pet and then in the workplace, you’re supposed to be more aggressive and assertive.
20:50
But as a woman, you need to be careful because that doesn’t always mean you’re a leader.
It could just mean that you become labeled as being aggressive or abrasive, right?
So I think those were all coming into play and then I found not only in the newspaper World which is what I was doing before.
21:12
II went into vocational Ministry and both phases to do diversity training.
We would often speak in generalizations and sometimes even stereotypes and there is kind of that one stereotype an archetype of asian-americans being less assertive or less aggressive in different situation, social situations and you know you know Tasha you would we even Acted in person.
21:44
I am pretty outgoing.
I opened my mouth and I insert foot and, but then, there are also times where I realize I cannot get a word in edgewise.
And I don’t, I mean, people say, I think quickly on my feet but in a room of white male leaders, there are times where I’m, like, I can’t get a word in edgewise because y’all are talking about Over each other interrupting each other.
22:14
And so I have found and and then they don’t necessarily look at me as a leader, right?
I have often been in Ministry situations been mistaken as somebody’s wife hmm and asked about that.
22:32
It’s been assumed that my husband is the one in Ministry, you know, all those types of social norms that were still trying to break through.
And so I have Found one that my speaking up literally can throw people off because they’re not expecting me to talk about black lives matter.
22:58
They’re not expecting me to leave in theology as well as practical experiences as a mom.
And, and they’re not expecting.
Maybe that anger that’s sometimes I bring with my passion and desire for clarity and so I think those are all of the things that come into play and I think everyone is wrestling with that.
23:25
But particularly for me, as a Korean American woman, I have found that that there are people who are uncomfortable with my emotions.
They don’t know what to do when I start crying.
They’re not really sure what to do when they Here, my anger and they’re also not sure what to do sometimes, period one because they’ve never seen a Korean American woman teach or preach, right?
23:53
So all of those things, I think come into play.
Yeah, that’s good.
That’s good.
You mentioned, your husband and I have an opportunity to meet your husband.
He is hilarious.
So but you know, how how does your and that I just, I love just what I had the opportunity to witness and how you support each other.
24:21
You know, how how does he support you in this work that you’re doing, you know?
Because I know like for some people culturally, right?
They wouldn’t see this, you know, re an American man, you know, yeah, yeah.
But I know like his support of you and and actually like you know, his humor in this also To self.
24:44
Yes.
Yeah so that you got to see him and you got to see us together which not many people get to see.
I mean he doesn’t travel with me, he’s not doing and called to do the same work in the same way.
24:59
So I mean one way he supports me is that while we were talking he picked up dinner and is you know keeping the boys quiet and the other room and he actually walked in and like that in the Corner and was watching me talk with you all.
25:16
And I was like, don’t be weird, I know it was kind of weird ways.
He supports me.
25:31
He is often my sounding board.
He’s the one who can calm me down, when I am riled up and not thinking Straight.
He’s also the one I know is praying for me while I’m doing this work, whether it’s on the road or in person or online and he makes space for me in our marriage in a way that probably is.
26:01
Well, I can say, it’s not what I would have expected.
I did not anticipate marrying another korean-american because I had lots of other cultural Hang-Ups as well, and and knowing that he’s 100% supportive has meant the world to me, because it’s meant that it’s taking more and more space and needing for us to figure out what this means.
26:29
That my Ministry is also much more public now than it was 20 years ago, when I first went into vocational Ministry, and with the book and this kind of stuff.
There’s a lot of Ego checking, and I think that’s also in the work of raising your voice.
26:48
Is that it?
You have to know what God is calling you to.
Yeah.
And not be in this kind of comparison.
Thing of I don’t have a book or I have a book and it’s not doing as well as so.
And so, or I have so many followers and I want this many felt like that.
27:07
That is not the work, God is calling us to, and I think that is what Peter Key models in our marriage is that we’re called to very different work and using our skills in very different ways.
27:23
And how do we support that because we’d be butting heads all the time over stupid things which we still do.
I mean, we’re married.
So we’re going to fight about stupid things, but yeah, and he keeps your teeth.
Looking nice to also.
27:39
Yes, he does.
Because he’s a dumbass, Yes.
So one of the things, you know, when we’re talking about raising your voice, and I think a lot of us, we’ve experienced this and some kind of way that this work, especially the work that we’re in, it’s going to cost us, you know, it can cause you relationally, you know, I know some people, they don’t have the relationship like you and Peter have and so in their marriage is costing them.
28:12
Because maybe one person see he’s one way and the other person sees a different way.
So you know in what ways when you talk about and what ways has this cost you and what advice would you give to people?
28:28
We’re speaking up you know maybe it on their job or in their church or in the boardroom has really cost them in this, you know, are they?
You know, and sometimes the a lot Of times the cost is to silence them.
28:45
So what type of advice, would you give someone that’s in that situation?
Yeah, sometimes, you know, you’re going to go into it alone because you were not expecting the situation and your blindsided by something that comes up.
And in those cases, I would say, try and find your allies and Advocates quickly and, and also Guard your heart.
29:15
I think I have been in spaces and situations where bitterness is really easy, really easy.
It’s super easy and I think it’s again kind of practicing in your mind.
29:37
The the scripts that you have the things that are important to you and what Would you do in those situations?
And I think, particularly, in the workspace, we know the Dynamics in our workplaces and with our colleagues.
29:53
And so, I don’t think it’s too crazy to think and imagine what those conversations might be, that are going to be problematic.
And sometimes we know ahead of time, what’s on the agenda at a meeting?
And you can see right away.
Like, oh, this is gonna be, this is gonna be a hard one.
30:12
How will you prepare for that, right?
It’s if it’s a work situation.
I think that there are plenty of opportunities to plan ahead.
Prey ahead, role, play and practice in your head the conversation or how you’re going to approach that situation at work.
30:31
And I think for me it has costs moments.
What I thought was what was important Contrite reputation, it’s hard to be labeled as a troublemaker.
30:48
It’s not fun.
I mean, Tasha you and I can joke about it, right?
Because we’ve been invited into space, has to be specifically that person, right?
We are being asked to say the things that other people don’t want to say.
31:06
And we’re being asked to say the hard things that come from people of color.
And so we know that but that’s It’s not easy and it takes a toll, I think, on understanding who we are as whole people.
And I think it has been easy at times to think that I am going to be that token and weighing the cost knowing that there is a place for us to speak into those white spaces and be honest.
31:40
And And be that Troublemaker but it’s hard.
Yeah, it’s hard.
It’s messy, you know, because when we look historically, you know when those who have spoken up it did cost in their reputation and in some cases it has cost lives if you know.
32:01
Absolutely.
And in some places you know it has cost them their jobs, you know I mean we’re dealing with situations now Peeking out for racial Injustice.
Just within the NFL, well they weren’t speaking up but taking an nearly, I’m just gonna go there, you know, it has calls to players their job and that’s the price that you pay for something that you believe in, right?
32:29
And that’s why this matter, you know, you count the calls.
You know.
So a lot of what I do, I have to count the calls in the sense, where, you know what this because I’m speaking up and I’m Leading this organization.
There’s some people that are not going to invite me into those spaces you know as so you count that calls you know that I may not be able to work in another church again because nobody wants someone this leading this type of ministry on this, you know.
33:01
So you count that cause and it comes with the heavy burden in this sense where your family may not understand sure.
You know and so I think you know, That’s something that, you know, that I want you guys that are those that are listening to know that this work comes with the calls.
33:21
And we, as advocates, we carry that that burden sometimes, you know, and we need each other in those spaces.
And that’s why I’m all about.
We all have different voices, and we have really have different approaches, but you would never see me tearing another activist Al Against you know, because how God has called, you may be different in that how God has called me.
33:49
But we need each other.
We need to support each other even when we disagree with one another.
And so I think that’s something that’s important that I want to just throw out there for free.
Yeah.
You know, and then the literal cause there’s there are broken relationship.
34:05
Yes.
And and I wasn’t doing and saying the things I am now 20 years. ago when I started in vocational Ministry and this book isn’t actually part of my day job but because people see what I’m doing and saying I’ve lost donors because I raise my support for my Ministry job and I have had lots of emails and conversations around what is perceived as something that is outside the gospel and And you know, it’s heartbreaking to have those conversations with people.
34:47
You’ve had long-standing relationship with and and then you add that layer of money it gets really really messy and and any even right and even that label and like activist it’s not something that I would necessarily have called myself and right.
35:12
Right?
And because that it carries all sorts of connotations, yes.
And and I had to have a couple of talks with people who were like, no, that is what you are, and that is what you’re doing, and I was like, I’ve never used the word.
35:32
Yeah, you know, I’m just gonna say it in white, Evangelical spaces.
Yes.
Being an activist isn’t going to win you friends, right?
Yeah it actually raises a lot of Suspicion question about your face.
35:54
Yes.
Yeah.
And when you’re coming in it, trying to raise support for something else that you’re doing.
It’s real.
It’s it’s hard.
It’s hard.
36:09
Right.
Right.
Right.
And Tiffany I know you.
Have another question and I wanted to give you space.
You’re agreeing really hard.
So we’re talking about, you mentioned, finding your allies in your Advocates and I love the part in your book where you talk about the circles in your real life and you how you have your people.
36:31
But for those of us who I am mixed race in a primarily white Evangelical Community, you know, starting to speak out in the past few years about these things and I’m trying to find my people and I kind of have maybe things.
36:48
Comments, I’ll stay with friends.
I’m closer to kind of test their reactions but like how did, how would you encourage people to find and curate that group of close people that they can be vulnerable with and and go to for support when they are facing backlash?
37:06
How can I find those people?
Yeah, exactly.
What you’re doing, right?
It’s hard.
I wish that we were actually little kids in a playground or a Sandbox and kind of like, can I have your bucket?
37:26
Do you want to play with my shovel?
Okay, let’s build a sandcastle together.
You know?
And and and I think it it’s hard as adults to make friends, it’s hard and so I would say you are doing exactly what you need to do which is you know you test the waters and you, you say And you kind of gauge the reaction and you really are fishing for information and not only drop statements, but ask questions of people and things that can be really benign.
37:59
Like, what are you reading?
What TV shows are you watching?
Hey, heard of this movie, Crazy, Rich, Asians that opens tomorrow.
Are you going to go see that?
You know, so kind of trying to tease out where people are at and what they’re interested in and how much do they want to know you?
38:22
And I think and I think it takes time and I’m, you know, Sydney I’m in a very white suburbs and we just left our very white Evangelical Church, and feel a little unmoored.
38:40
And a little like, we’re just floating about trying to figure out where is our Group of in real life, Christian friends, and I think that’s the hard thing is that we have friends who are scattered all over the country friends who have moved out of the area.
39:01
But, like, people that we see on a weekly basis right now, we are craving that we are, we are so longing for that, and, and I don’t think it’s beyond us to be praying.
39:17
And for that, I think, right?
It’s one of those things that I often forget, but remember, praying for for my children.
Like, when they started school, like God, would you just give them like so good friends?
Good friends?
39:34
Yeah.
And I think we should probably be praying for that for one another, especially in these times where We can feel connected virtually but I think that we need people who are there with us physically and then even in the virtual spaces, how can we really curate?
40:01
And that’s not really the word I’m looking for.
How can we write?
How can we Foster real relationship online?
Yeah.
And what does that look like?
And so, you know, here’s the miracle of Facebook live and all the Technology that I want to ask you all about later, but I have I have friends.
40:20
I have a dear friend in California and we get together for virtual wine night because we’re never and we were rarely in the same place together but to be able to, at least every couple of weeks, say hey let’s hop on and we are going to sit in the corner and talk and pray and I think those are some of the things that I have found that is needed for us.
40:49
And so, you know, and again, Tiffany I feel you.
Like, it’s so vulnerable to be like, will you be my friend?
Yeah, well, and in some instances, it’s friends that I’ve already had became a mom, two years ago.
41:05
And, and I have a lot of good mommy, friends in the church that I’m at but I haven’t talked about About this side of myself with all of them, right?
Yeah.
And there has been mixed reactions.
41:21
As I’ve tried to sort of gently wade into those Waters because I realized I needed to stop hiding that part of myself for my closest friends and I needed to find people, I could bring my whole self to right and that’s you know, I appreciate what you said about about testing.
41:40
I think it still applies to people you kind of already know.
Yeah, yeah.
To see where they’re at.
On some of these things, you might have a sense for it, but sometimes they can surprise you one way or the other.
Yes, I’m not.
Can be again going back to maybe being costly.
41:56
Yeah, but maybe being worth it for the ones you do.
You do really find right right.
Right.
And it’s, you know, again I think it’s the whole finding friendships establishing friendships as adults.
Cults is it’s really hard.
42:13
It’s hard.
Well, we’re gonna do one more question and then we’re going to open it up.
If you have questions, if you’re listening and you have questions for Kathy as it relates to raise your voice and why we stay silent and how to speak up.
42:31
And I think this applies, you know, to the work of racial justice but it also applies to You know, the me to movement the church to movement, it applies to you going in there and speaking up and asking for that raise or stepping out and doing some of the things that God has placed in your heart to do.
42:50
So I think there’s a lot of practical just nuggets in this book so we want you to go and order this book and support the work that Kathy has been called to and just the important work that she brings.
43:08
To the body.
And I think for me, for me what I’m just, I just thought about this one of the moments that just really stood out to me that really inspired me was when we spoke at voices conference together and you kind of close the, the weekend out.
43:28
And when I looked up, I saw you standing there.
You kind of told your story and kind of like your parents story of coming.
The states and, you know, and your journey and you share it that in.
43:44
And then when I saw just this line of, you know, Asian American students, you know, you know, I think if they were Korean American Chinese, America, it was like everyone, like, because they saw a representation of their voice and their story.
44:04
They saw themselves in you and I saw that line and that’s all.
Some of the girls crying as they were standing there and wanted to talk with you.
And I mean I was like oh my God like we need to lift up the voices of all you know you know minorities in this country.
44:25
You know.
And it’s just like it did.
It shouldn’t be a strange thing.
Yes.
You know.
It’s it right.
It shouldn’t be something new.
Where it’s like I’ve never heard, you know, a korean-american.
Speak, you know, reflection of how our it should be the norm because you’re out there.
44:43
Yeah, you’re out there and I’m glad that we had this opportunity to, to lift your voice and just to put you before the community of be the bridge and you talk about this work being ongoing, it’s a lifestyle just share.
45:02
Just give maybe just three things that you want people to be left with.
And then I, Want you to talk about how you take care of yourself because we do this.
Work is difficult.
Yeah.
So I know you’ve inspired me as far as the facemask the yoga.
45:26
I’m not good at the yoga.
I look crazy.
But I know you’re a yoga instructor, but if you could just kind of leave people with three things and then talk to them about how you kind of take care of yourself in this.
Art Space turn.
Okay.
Wait what’s the first part you want me to say how how you finding your voice is ongoing?
45:53
And that it’s something that it’s not like a beginning and an end, but the things you’re learning, they’re just maybe to nuggets that people can take away from this conversation.
We are not born fully formed.
Right.
We’re still we learn how to communicate walk.
46:13
There are so many different developmental stages and even as we are adults, we enter into different seasons and stages of life.
And and with each season, with each stage, there are new things that we have to learn and things that we thought we learned that have to relearn again and I think that that is what this This work is and it’s always, and it’s hard to because when we say like this work, it sounds so ambiguous and yeah.
46:47
And right like who but really, it’s the work of the Gospel.
I keep telling people that I don’t do this so that we just create trouble, for trouble sake, but that it’s always pointing to the fact that this is not the way it’s supposed to be.
47:07
Yes.
And there is a better way and that is only going to come with Jesus and when people say yes to Jesus our lives should be different, we should be living differently and part of that is we’ve got a call out this vs.
47:24
We’ve got a call out the hate and the racism and the sexism.
We’ve got to call it.
And and that this isn’t politics.
It can be political, hmm.
It doesn’t have to be about Party politics, right?
47:43
Definitely.
When we say, we are in the world but not of the world, I think this is part of that work.
Yes.
How are we going to impact the world?
That God has put us in like we are here physically, are we supposed to just wait, it out.
48:02
Until heaven knows we’re like this.
We’re supposed to live out.
Something that is different.
So that’s what I want to tell people.
Is that this work that we’re doing is Gospel.
Yes, yes.
And and because it’s work and we are physical bodies.
48:23
I guess the whole face mask, I’m all about taking care.
Care of our skin and and those those women that you saw lining up, most of them were not students.
We just look really young and your skin hair.
48:52
Takes a little more work, but I I want to encourage people to take care of their physical bodies as part of the discipline of being aware of our spiritual lives.
49:08
And I have said this to many of us who are in this work, that it takes a toll on you spiritually, and physically.
And so, I became a certified yoga instructor in part because Because I find that that physical practice, actually helps me connect very much with what’s going on, emotionally and spiritually.
49:38
I think that we can too easily think that we’re taking on the world, and there will always be something to respond to always.
And so we need to have some discernment and have people who will not only say things to us, like get off.
49:57
The phone or get off social media or go on vacation but also people who will Empower and encourage us and maybe even make us do that, right?
And and because the beauty of social media is that I have met so many people and Been able to have so many new friends.
50:22
The hard thing is to be able to pull myself away and disconnect from the space.
That is always going to have.
It’s always there’s always something new to respond to every day and sometimes every moment it’s like what what?
50:45
And so I think there are some things that we need to do like turn off the notifications.
Vacations.
Yes.
And put it on silent.
I think we need to I know I need to turn it off more often.
I think we need to be aware of how we’re exercising and not exercising.
51:05
I think we need to practice taking deep breaths and and being still in a world.
That does not value Stillness or silence.
Mmm.
And I think even in our churches we are guilty of that.
51:26
There’s always something, right?
There’s like someone’s praying but there’s music playing in the back.
Hmm, right.
Right.
And we’re exiting the sanctuary or wherever we’re meeting.
There’s music.
Yeah.
Playing in the back and even though I feel like there’s this like pushing and Making us feel something in our bodies so that we actually don’t know what’s going on.
51:56
And so, so breathe a little, get your sleep drink, lots of water and I have some fun.
Yes, because I think this work is so, I mean, it’s serious, because it’s life and death, right?
Yeah.
52:11
But have some fun and so, you know, I’m gonna go see crazy, Rich Asians at least three times.
Because I know that there are problems only 30 feet, you know, at some point I’m like, wow, these tickets are really expensive so there’s a quality to that, but I figure like I saw black panther three times.
52:34
I think about it, even though there are all sorts of things that are problematic about the movie.
52:49
I get it, but I just fun.
We just just just go and enjoy the Asian.
53:10
Dude, he gets the girl and that you can, dude.
He’s easy on the eyes.
So, you know, and I know Problematic, and that kind of stuff.
But I think also, in this space, we need to be able to have fun and be joyful.
53:29
Yes, yes.
And I know that something when I was last with you, you know, we were having lunch and you’re like, how do you have fun?
Are you taking care of yourself?
You know, all those things.
And I’m like, yes, Kathy, I finally got a trainer, you know, all these All these things.
53:50
So I appreciate your voice.
And thank you so much for just gracing us with your presence.
And we have a few minutes.
I didn’t see any questions.
Tiffany, did you see any questions?
I didn’t see.
I saw some great comments, but yeah.
54:08
Okay, okay, so we we have a question for you.
When are you going to go by Kathy’s book?
It’s so you’re gonna go by that tonight at your bookstore or Old Amazon or wherever you frequent.
Yeah.
54:23
And so and if you’re not following Kathy on social media on all the social medias, we can post that information there to follow her and it’s Kathy would say follow with caution, you know.
Yeah.
That’s what I tell people.
54:38
You know sometimes I’m going to say things that you love and sometimes I’m going to say some things that I need to say, yeah, because they need to be said and so it may not make you feel good.
Good, you know, but but thank you guys for joining us and you know, this is a great opportunity.
54:56
You know, Kathy still part of the, this be the bridge family and, you know, this this work can be exhausting.
So I know that a lot of people, they pick their head in and now that this group of 20,000 people from time to time, but they’re like I can’t do it today.
55:19
You know.
But thank you so much for Lending your voice and and creating this resource and tool that we can use to become better advocates in the spaces that we’re in.
And so I think someone said they saw black panther many times.
55:36
And she said that this is, she said that she’s in Cambodia and it’s only three dollars, whatever 3D.
Yes, 3D hurts my eyes.
But that three dollars.
I mean I’ve been have to bring some some shades or something for that but and and then it just posted on Twitter.
55:59
And Instagram is at Miss Kathy King, this on there and so you can follow her there.
But thank you so much Kathy and thank you, the.
All of you who stayed up, I think we’re gonna do these calls of the Facebook and wives that we do.
Once a month, we’ve actually had to this month.
56:15
We have another one coming up next month, but we try to do the monthly.
We had to this month and sometimes we may have to sometimes I’ll do them.
And then sometimes I may pull someone else and to do them with me or to have them do them by themselves but we just this is a way of really spreading awareness in our community about people who are in our community.
56:38
And so we really want to keep it keep this message with about our community and how it relates to our community as we grow.
And so, So hopefully guys you can get this tool and you can use it within your be the bridge groups and and within your the spaces that you’re in.
56:57
So she’s someone that I literally just walked out of Bibles.
What were you doing?
Listening to us at my church.
Lord Lawrence Well, thank you.
57:21
I’m so glad you were listening.
Well, you should be in between a men’s scripture Kathy and Tiffany if you can hold on, we’re going to end the broadcast with everyone else.
And then if you guys can hold, I’ll normally, if I forget to say that everybody Bells out, sleeves.
57:44
Anyway, we’ll post this and all the groups and so that everyone can see it.
You guys have a good night.
Thanks.
Bye.
Lauren.
Go back to your Bible study.
Thank you for listening to this.
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